unlocked, to promote discussion

[glockgal]

BINDI?
DISCLAIMER: I'm using 'Wolverine and the X-Men' as an example. I'm not offended by the cartoon, I just laugh at the story/characterization of the X-Men. My personal opinion, which doesn't affect this discussion and doesn't judge your enjoyment of the cartoon. (in short: I like tons of stuff others laugh at; but I know you don't judge me for

Comments

[ashkitty]

Oh man, I remember Captain Planet! Didn't actually watch it, I just remember seeing something about it and thinking it looked stupid (because a cartoon about pollution is not nearly as exciting as a cartoon involving giant robots *g*).

Sort of tangenitally related (because it's not cartoons), does anyone else remember hearing about how back in the '70s, Sesame Street got a lot of complaints because they showed white kids and black kids all playing together and living on the same street? For obvious reasons (not being a kid, or having any) I haven't seen SS in years and years, but I remember something about it in a media class being pretty groundbreaking for the time just by not having cultural markers or any of that, just having kids running around playing with puppets and learning words and numbers.

[heather]

I remember The Magic School Bus! Not LEAST because it was about science and they got to do awesome things like follow cough syrup on its quest to save their classmate from a cold. (Win!) But yes, a more diverse cast than I usually saw at the time, and no blatant stereotyping when it came to accents or outfits. It was very much as if you walked into a normal classroom in a diverse neighborhood. And as a kid, you'd see people who looked like you who got to actually talk, and contribute to the Science Discovery of the Week.

Well played, PBS, well-played. ^_^ Not perfect, but definitely trying.

[glockgal]

I was just thinking of Captain Planet!! Oh man, that cartoon was bad. So very bad. Now that I'm older, I understand their concept and totally congratulate them for it, but geez. Did it have to be SO very PSA in every way? Even as a kid, it irritated me.

Now I want a Captain Planet revamped cartoon. Except it should be called something like 'Planet 2000' and the kids should actually sound like kids and not like clumsy atrocious accented she-men. And Captain Planet needs to revamp his look. Mullet...*shakes head sadly*

OH HAY I SHOULD JUST REDRAW THEM MYSELF, Y/Y????

Magic School Bus does a good job, I think. Except when they all turn into turtles, but then still have HUMAN HEADS. GYAH WHAT IS UP WITH THAT, TEACHER-LADY.

[heather]

I'm not as familiar with comics as I am just normal cartoons. Cynically, I think most of the people behind these shows don't themselves bother to distinguish PoCs beyond their cultural markers, so of course they are projecting that onto the audience, and I also think in most cases, they're basically just ticking boxes to show they've got a little color on the show. There's not often an attempt to give them any more depth than that because they're not often main characters.

It's got slightly better since the 90s, I think, in that there's a little less blatant stereotyping. It feels like every black kid I saw on cartoons growing up was called Jamal or Keisha and celebrated Kwanzaa, and every Indian girl I saw wore a sari -- when they were there at all. Which was rare (or rarer

[glockgal]

I think most of the people behind these shows don't themselves bother to distinguish PoCs beyond their cultural markers, so of course they are projecting that onto the audience, and I also think in most cases, they're basically just ticking boxes to show they've got a little color on the show

Good god, that is cynical. But altogether something that I can't really refute. After seeing the crass and blatant idiocy displayed by cast and crew for the Avatar movie, I don't believe anything progressive about the film/animation industry at all. :/

A lot of PoC kids living in America/Canada are in a state of flux. We're not 'ethnic' enough to be counted as the characters depicted in shows (which generally have accents and/or dress in traditional clothes from their country of origin)...and kids I think especially try to identify with what the think they're like, generally not what they are from a sociological standpoint

[heather]

Good god, that is cynical. But altogether something that I can't really refute. After seeing the crass and blatant idiocy displayed by cast and crew for the Avatar movie, I don't believe anything progressive about the film/animation industry at all. :/

Yeah, I mean, I feel this way mostly because what I see of PoCs (for the most part) is a bit throwaway, you know? Like, barely-characterised, rarely a huge part of the story, and god forbid there'd be more than one on-screen at once. Rarely is there much thought put behind it, which I think is the problem; I get a vibe of 'okay we kind of have to include them so here you go'. I dunno what that would mean for a kid; to repeatedly see that people like you are quite important. :/ Which is why I think it really is othering, and it might even be unconscious on the part of TPTB, but it's no less resonant.

A lot of PoC kids living in America/Canada are in a state of flux. We're not 'ethnic' enough to be counted as the characters depicted in shows (which generally have accents and/or dress in

[wabbitseason]

Hmm... it makes me wonder how well the old Jem & the Holograms would hold up on that front. Three of the Holograms were POC (Asian, African-American, and Hispanic respectively), Minx was German and not a dirndl in sight, and some of the Starlight girls were POC. But I don't know how stereotypical they were or not.

[glockgal]

For true! I remember watching Jem, but I can honestly say I can't remember any of the ethnicities of the Holograms. I was mostly concerned about Jem and her love interests and her kicking Misfit ass. ;D

ETA: I really WOULD be nice to see how the Holograms were protrayed? I'm guessing their personalities, while stereoypical, had no real tie to their cultural backgrounds. They were perhaps designated 'sidekick' personalities like the smart one, the tough one and the ditz?

[xterm]

I think that you hit the nail on head... yes, there is an argument for quick visual reference BUT it's extremely weak!! Amos and Andy were a stereotype... not accepted anymore... crazy Russian replaced with crazy Terrorist etc... are these 'visual cues' we wish to teach children??

This may be a silly example but I was talking to someone about the Mentalist (TV show) and I was saying my favourite characters are the two guy cops, they have great chemistry... the response was 'oh the Asian guy?' and it struck me that here was an example of a PoC who was just a cop... an average intelligent cop with a good sense of humour... I don't know maybe I missed something or I totally out to lunch... I prone to that...

[glockgal]

are these 'visual cues' we wish to teach children??

Precisely! It's interesting to note that shows like Magic School Bus and Dora the Explorer and Sesame Street promote cultural diversity and are generally popular among their target age group - but as the kids grows up and have more control choosing what shows to watch and enjoy, the racial diversity narrows severely. Not by their choice, but more in what the media has to offer them

[yeloson]

Given that they can have a white Aang on the movie screen without being confused about his whiteness despite being in tibetan robes and doing kung fu, I can't imagine why characters of color would necessarily have to have cultural markers to still read.

(except in the world of white-landia where everything can code as white and brown people without grass skirts are totally ethnically ambiguous and cause people to bleed from their noses with the monumental struggle of their brain cells to comprehend.)

[glockgal]

Seriously man - the case of Avatar is severely indicative of how some people have defined racial markers to be pale skin/big eyes = white; dark skin and/or slanty eyes = not white. And there is NO SPACE for ambiguity otherwise.