I love you so much (and I am rather in tears writing this because I think I need right now to be reminded of everyone who loves me). You are made of awesome.
I think you've nailed the central, social issue. The black-and-white, "you're with us 100% or you're the enemy" thinking creates many many more problems than it solves. I've come to the conclusion that it's impossible to 100% support either side; my own biases pain me as it seems like I am not 100% supportive of a rape victim, when that is not what I mean to be at all.
I agree 100% with the last paragraph. You know who I was talking about in my filtered post. I can't imagine how he would be accepted/treated now, as a troubled and awkward young man who was not always clear about consent, and sometimes grew angry over his own failings. I think he's grown up a lot better, and I like to think that being in a social group that was not quick to label or shun him helped that.
No, it's not my job to socialize people like that. But it's far more likely to happen when there are a lot of people helping out and keeping an eye on things.
I know exactly who you are talking about, and I think he learned and grew and went through some real soul searching and got to a point where he actually *did* get it in a profound way he didn't when he was younger. I haven't been in touch with him that much since he moved away, but I have a standing invitation to stay at his house when I am in the city where he lives, and I would feel utterly comfortable and safe staying there now.
And I would love to talk about this more off line (and see you in general!) It has been way too long since we have had more than the briefest of party conversations.
I too agree with you on the Not 100% black and white and if you try to see the grey in between you are labeled as being against one or both sides of the issue. Like I posted a while ago, Those who speak the loudest for tolerance are often the least tolerant.
I don't know who you two are speaking of regarding their "growing", but I do know someone who is in that grey area and people are labeling him black and not willing to see the grey.
The bar for being creepy may be higher, but it can also be lower. Someone else said, what used to be socially awkward is now labeled creepy. Well, I in most cases, I still consider it socially awkward, And I also think people learn from mistakes if told of them and given the chance.
That whole S***storm going on, I want no further part of it mostly because I refuse to commit 100% to either side.
As demonstrated by this comment in specific and this multi-journal discussion in general, we as a community are more concerned with whether or not we assign consequences to sexual malfeasance and what the effects of those consequences are or should be on those accused, than what the effects are on the victims and whether or not victims can expect to be listened to if they come forward. The wider society we're mired in has the same ranking of priorities, and I think that is exactly the incorrect ranking both in wider society and in this community.
This whole thing is such a mess. *sigh* I wish it were otherwise, but I'm finding that that a number of people I like have been saying things that, unfortunately, make me think less of them. Not you, though. *hug*
I feel like things are starting to slow down and calm down, but I'm not as close to the people involved as you are. I'm glad you are willing to say what you did publicly. Thank you for writing this.
If things seem like they're starting to calm down, it's likely only because people have gotten tired of fighting and yelling at each other for the near term. It doesn't mean that there's been any kind of breakthrough or solution or meeting of the minds, just that the level of anger we've seen over the last few days isn't sustainable for any length of time.
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*hugs*
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I love you so much (and I am rather in tears writing this because I think I need right now to be reminded of everyone who loves me). You are made of awesome.
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I agree 100% with the last paragraph. You know who I was talking about in my filtered post. I can't imagine how he would be accepted/treated now, as a troubled and awkward young man who was not always clear about consent, and sometimes grew angry over his own failings. I think he's grown up a lot better, and I like to think that being in a social group that was not quick to label or shun him helped that.
No, it's not my job to socialize people like that. But it's far more likely to happen when there are a lot of people helping out and keeping an eye on things.
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I know exactly who you are talking about, and I think he learned and grew and went through some real soul searching and got to a point where he actually *did* get it in a profound way he didn't when he was younger. I haven't been in touch with him that much since he moved away, but I have a standing invitation to stay at his house when I am in the city where he lives, and I would feel utterly comfortable and safe staying there now.
And I would love to talk about this more off line (and see you in general!) It has been way too long since we have had more than the briefest of party conversations.
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I don't know who you two are speaking of regarding their "growing", but I do know someone who is in that grey area and people are labeling him black and not willing to see the grey.
The bar for being creepy may be higher, but it can also be lower. Someone else said, what used to be socially awkward is now labeled creepy. Well, I in most cases, I still consider it socially awkward, And I also think people learn from mistakes if told of them and given the chance.
That whole S***storm going on, I want no further part of it mostly because I refuse to commit 100% to either side.
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I feel rather like everything around me is shattering into every widening circles of shards of broken glass.
And, yeah, some of the things that have been said are... unfortunate...
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