No rules ... just right

[gothaminserenia]

The old Outback Steakhouse slogan came to mind for this post. Because one of my other pet peeves are stoplightsIt's always annoyed me how we're supposed to stop and wait, even when there's no cross-traffic, especially at 3 in the morning. With conservatives so worried about foreign oil dependency, and liberals so worried about pollution, you'd

Comments

[deadpansev]

There is a great book called "Traffic: Why We Drive the Way We Do (and What It Says About Us)", all about traffic, laws, and why we speed, ignore stop signs, etc. It talks about the town with no traffic laws and how they accomplished this, it also talks about how traffic works in places like Bombay where there are a lot of people and few traffic laws. I found it in audio book format and found it well worth while.

[gothaminserenia]

When I was in Panama City, the main thoroughfares had signals but most intersections were totally unregulated. At one point, I looked down from a high-rise building to observe a busy intersection without signals or stop signs. It seemed a bit chaotic, but everyone got through quite smoothly ... and I never saw any accidents when I was there. It seemed to work pretty well.

Regarding speeding, I did some engineering on a major roadway project once, so I know there's something in traffic design philosophy called the "80 percentile rule" (or something like that). It says that 80% of people will naturally drive at a certain speed when they don't see speed limit signs or look at their speedometers, and this is considered the road's natural "safe speed". But local & state authorities routinely set speed limits 10 to 20 mph below this "safe speed", so when people tend to exceed the limit, they can rack up more speeding ticket revenue.

[tc_nightraven]

I have also been intrigued by the 80th percentile idea. The only caveat I have is that a roads's safe speed, while significantly higher than the posted speed limit, is under IDEAL conditions. What happens to the road when it's wet, icy, cracked, etc? Most people will still speed under these conditions, and accidents go up. I'm not saying I disagree with you about stop signs/signals/etc, but I personally don't want to trust my safety in a speeding zone with a reckless driver.

If there were less stop lights and higher speed limits, there too should be better driver's education. I have hard time believing that the sheeple who disregard the law now would be more inclined to be safe with less law, even if it would theoretically make them more cautious. The caution and personal responsibility are the key here, not the outdated laws per se.

[gothaminserenia]

I do slow down when it's rainy and especially when it's icy, and the vast majority of people do too. But yes, there are always a few who are fearless ... and that may be true in any type of system. If we have speed limits, I'd say they should be set for ideal conditions, because that's what the conditions are 95% of the time; it'd be really annoying to crawl along at limits set under icy conditions when it's dry & clear all spring, summer, and fall (and most of winter too).

Most people already tend to drive at the natural "safe speed", regardless of the limit. One funny thing I've noticed is that in Wisconsin, the freeways are 65 mph & I always see several cops waiting to bust people ... in Minnesota, the freeways are 70 mph & I almost never see cops on speed patrol ... but people in Wisconsin and Minnesota drive the same speed. So my guess is 75 mph is probably the typical freeway's natural speed.

[bluedragonflye]

Once, I drove up Central Ave in Columbia Heights (a busy 4-lane artery) when the power had gone out across the area. With everyone stopping & taking turns at each intersection, traffic flowed more quickly than when all the stoplights were working.OK, but did you, perchance, notice how people reacted to actually crossing the intersection? Because every time I have been in a car when this has happened, I have feared for my life, watching some people speed through after the person ahead of them, and other timidly wait for everyone around them to go until the cars behind them begin to honk, and it's just a clusterfuck. And forget it on a bike - I'll just turn around and find another route

[gothaminserenia]

I thought traffic moved quite orderly, with people taking turns. Most people know what to do when stoplights aren't working, but yeah, some don't have a clue. As I recall, the Central Ave traffic moved along steadily and people on the cross-streets had a chance to go; the main confusion was when someone on Central tried making a left turn. I don't remember any bicyclists or pedestrians, so I can't comment about that. I think when people are used to being told when to stop & go, and suddenly they have to figure it out themselves, that's where the confusion comes. But if people got used to a new system, they'd catch on quickly. Anyway, it definately took less time to drive Central than it does with all those stoplights, and I've driven that route frequently.

I'm not interested in a fight either. I'm just trying to challenge your views on the healthcare thing. (I don't fight with you all the time ... do I?)

[redghost]

I believe people would get use to It, they have put In traffic loops In Richfield, not exactly sure what they are called here, but there's only a yield sign and you take turns going around till you get to the street you want. Anyone know what that Is called?

They have them all over Seattle and I never knew what they were called.

[gothaminserenia]

They're called Roundabouts. I think they're quite common in Europe, but they're relatively new here.

[rskm1]

... city of Drachten, Netherlands, which completely removed all traffic signals, street signs, and lines on the roads. The idea is that instead of just following rules, people would become aware of their surroundings.

Man, if we implement anything like that HERE, instead of selling my Caprice, I'm gonna fix the tranny and mount flamethrowers and a turreted recoilless rifle on it.

And a big amplified loudspeaker, so I can shout "HANG UP AND DRIVE!" before I light 'em up and shoot their car in half.

[redghost]

I fully agree with you, I think people would become better drivers and there would be a lot less road rage. Let people think for themselves. Our government Is against that unfortunately. I mean we even need our government to pick out our health care now. sheesh.

[gothaminserenia]

I agree about the road rage. Because it's frustrating to sit at a stoplight for no reason. And it's really frustrating to drive down a street and hit every red light along the way. It's no wonder people run the yellow lights. Then the officials always push the "authority approach", trying to install red light cameras & have more traffic cops. I'd much prefer the "liberty approach" of taking the controls away & letting people decide for themselves what they need to do, based on the situation.