Rewatch S6: My Heart Will Go On (6x17)

[hells_half_acre]

Ok! Back to funny...

More complicated clothes in this one. Sam has a new plaid shirt (bless the boy, but I am running out of plaid shirt descriptions.)

Anyway, let's get started...

Comments

[4422shini]

"No, you can't just mint money, Castiel. It's wrong, it's dangerous. And I won't let you."
- I wonder how the transaction worked. Because he saved them, were their souls somehow his? How did he get the power from this act? It's true though, you can't just mint money - that's the leading cause of hyperinflation, depressions, and subsequent totalitarian regimes.

BAHAHAHAHA!! That's almost what DID lead to Cas' totalitarian regime...

[hells_half_acre]

Hahaha, true!

[ramblin_rosie]

Dude, cobblestone streets HURT. Or at least the ones in Oxford did. (Joke, yes, I know, but still.)

Re: never being born: I wonder if that's foreshadowing, too, but Job wishes that he had never been born in Job 3; Jeremiah says more or less the same thing in Jer. 20:14-18; and Jesus is on record twice (Matt. 26:24 and Mark 14:21) as saying that it would have been better for Judas had he not been born. I definitely don't think it's a coincidence. However, I do keep waiting for someone to hit Dean with Gandalf's insight:

Frodo: I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.
Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you.

[hells_half_acre]

Yes, I could never figure out how those ladies in Europe could walk on cobblestones in high heels! I could barely manage it in sneakers...though I do love the look of the cobblestone streets.

Re: biblical references - that's awesome! Thanks for that knowledge. So, either it's forshadowing, or its tying Supernatural in with the judeo-christian mythology (or just the christian mythology? I forget sometimes which books are old testament and which are new, besides the ones directly relating to Jesus).

Ah Gandalf...he really does need to have a talk with Dean.

[ramblin_rosie]

Judeo-Christian--and really, more Jewish than not, given that Jesus was considered a rabbi. (Job and Jeremiah are Old Testament.)

[hells_half_acre]

Really? I thought they considered him a false prophet...maybe that's just a possibility? I don't know as much about Judaism as I should. This is why I can't write my pre-series Dean Joins the New York Jewish Community fic. :P

[galwithglasses]

Reading your comment, it makes me think that Bobby, Dean, Sam, and Cas are all kind of like Peter Pan and the Lost Boys waiting for Wendy to come and tell them stories and tuck them in. In some ways, they each try to fill the role on their own for the others. Dean's the only mom that Sam ever had and Jess was around for a little while. Bobby does some of the same for Dean and I think Lisa did also to some extent. Cas was adrift with only what he picked up from observation and the unreliable source of the Winchesters. Bobby is probably the only one that has any idea what having a female presence around is like but who knows his history other than Karen. I'm guessing he grew up with a mom. They try to compensate for the lack but when you see them with Ellen in the picture, you realize how off they've been. When Ellen was part of their lives, she wasn't diminished as a character. Still the same tough, competent woman she was but she had someone to share the road with and probably wasn't as lonesome. It made me miss her even

[hells_half_acre]

I like that analogy of Peter and the lost boys - it's very apt, and I think rings true.

They try to compensate for the lack but when you see them with Ellen in the picture, you realize how off they've been.

I find this is the case with the scenes where Dean and Sam get to see their mother too (even if she is just a withdrawal-hallucination)...it's like suddenly, in the presence of their mother, we see how truly broken and vulnerable they are without her. I think we got just a LITTLE bit of that here, where suddenly with Ellen around, everything seemed a little more solid, their foundations a little stronger.

[hells_half_acre]

The absence of women, primarily a mother figure, has shaped the guys into who they are now since day one and the results have not always been pretty.

Yes, exactly...and we see it in the rare moments where the boys are actually in the presence of their mother. It's like all their brokenness comes out in clear detail and we see how very vulnerable they are and have been without her.

It's interesting to see that how, although our society is pegged as patriarchal, our thoughts and feelings about mothers and families is so matriarchal.This is very true. I know of a family where the mother was the one who was (arguably) abusive and (thankfully) abandoned the family early on...leaving the father as the sole parent of the two children. He quickly discovered that everything was designed for mothers...changing tables were in the women's restrooms...if he wanted to take his kids across the border, he needed a note from their mother, even though she was a horrible mother and not part of their lives...and a thousand other little things, I'm

[percysowner]

"No, you can't just mint money, Castiel. It's wrong, it's dangerous. And I won't let you."
- I wonder how the transaction worked. Because he saved them, were their souls somehow his? How did he get the power from this act? It's true though, you can't just mint money - that's the leading cause of hyperinflation, depressions, and subsequent totalitarian regimes.

I found the number of 50,000 interesting, especially since we learn that Cas owe Crowley 50,000 souls. I think that by creating them, Cas did "own" the souls in a way and that he was fully intending on sending them to Hell to repay his debt, whether or not they deserved to go. Cas was trying to pay down his deal for Purgatory souls with human souls.

"Ellen and Jo

[hells_half_acre]

Ooo...I didn't catch that it was 50,000 and 50,000. Good call.

I find this quote by Castiel to be very interesting, because Fate wasn't being capricious and although her death's were intricate, they weren't torturous or all that cruel.

Yes! I forgot to mention that in the post, but you are spot on. I really think Castiel was trying to "spin" this, so that it looked like Fate was the bad guy, and not Castiel for messing with things too much. He was trying to make himself out to be the hero that they should trust, and in order to do that, he needed to make those against him look like villains.

On some level I think Sam would have good reason to feel that the world would be better if he were never born and that not being born would be preferable to going into the Cage for however long he was there. I don't know if the show will ever go this way, but I would like to see it.It would be VERY interesting, but I'm not sure if it's something we actually want to see. It might be harder to come back from - because the show has already said

[percysowner]

I would depend on the real cost. It is possible that Jake or Ava would have provided and adequate substitute vessel for Lucifer. If Sam hadn't been born, then it is unlikely that John would have cheated and Dean would have been about the only vessel around for Michael. John, if still alive, would have been a back up, but if Dean had been raised in a house believing that angels were watching over him AND had never had any reason to be suspicious of angels, he might well have said yes to Michael and the Apocalypse on.

Sam seeing Dean possessed by Michael, half the world dead and who know what other fallout from Dean and another psy kid saying yes to Michael and Lucifer respectively might well make Sam see that his upbringing, his pain, his suffering were the only things that stood between an Apocalyptic battle with Dean being lost in his own body or the relative peace that was obtained by Sam's sacrifice.

[hells_half_acre]

I certainly wouldn't say no to seeing Jensen in the role of Michael, that's for sure!

But you're right - there are probably plenty of circumstances where Sam would be able to see why it's good he was born.

[katsheswims]

I agree with your theory of the missing female presence in a male focused world. I don't think the show is misogynistic, though I suppose I can see why some people would think so-it honestly never occurred to me that some people saw it that way until I got involved with the SPN fandom and started reading meta and things other than fic.

[hells_half_acre]

I saw a great article about misogyny in Supernatural that pointed out all the places where people think it is misogynistic, and then pointed out that even with all that misogyny, it is still one of the least misogynistic shows on TV. So, I guess we can either be happy and proud of it, or extremely depressed about society :P

To me if something is less misogynistic than I was when I was in high school, I figure it's doing okay.