Re: So, anyone up for *real* concrit?
anonymous
October 4 2008, 04:24:48 UTC
First of all? Trixie's post about it said absolutely nothing about the quality of the fiction. She said:
iijima doesn't interest me at all, and frankly, i think nase can do a LOT better. this unfair personal prejudice is most likely why all of their interaction struck me as being really stilted and forced. and really, iijima seems just pathetic here. everything about this just feels really uncomfortable for him. =p i dunno, though, i'm not reading it with unbiased eyes, so.This is basically just saying 'I don't like the character you wrote about, so I didn't like this fic', which is -- so completely far removed from actual concrit it's not even funny? Her not liking the fic is pretty much akin to not liking chocolate and telling a world-class chocolatier that she didn't like his chocolate; it has no objective basis, and it's just as biased (and therefore irrelevant as real criticism) as she herself points it out to be
( ... )
Re: So, anyone up for *real* concrit?
anonymous
October 4 2008, 08:38:51 UTC
Had it not been the words "stilted and forced", I would have agreed, but if I was writing bad interaction I think it's important to point it out! But thank you for the effort. :)
Re: So, anyone up for *real* concrit?
anonymous
October 4 2008, 04:43:23 UTC
There is absolutely nothing that smacks of bad writing in this fic, except perhaps use of terms like "velvet softness" during the smut. The fart joke seemed out of place, because you'd already well-established (and continue to establish) Iijima's complete awkwardness, and the emphasis was over-the-top.
Iijima jerked, stiffened, and cried her name brokenly as the water clouded around her fingers and his shame.This part was a little jarring; I'm not sure Iijima is quite so embarrassed about his sexuality so as to refer to it like that? The reader already knows that he's ashamed about coming; seeing it termed so concretely was a bit invasive, I think
( ... )
Re: So, anyone up for *real* concrit?
anonymous
October 4 2008, 16:26:40 UTC
(So, I failed horribly at responding. I'm sorry, I was going OMG CRIT YES. Will remedy this now!)
Nase was very difficult to write (as I said in a comment below--I think it was in response to "2."). I fully accept that weakness, and I don't know if I will be doing much more of her in the future, since writing this was painfully difficult.
Again, thank you very much. This has been some very useful crit, and I am pathetically grateful. Thank you.
Re: So, anyone up for *real* concrit?
anonymous
October 4 2008, 21:40:46 UTC
I agree wholeheartedly with this, particularly the part about Nase's motives. The fic isn't bad. Personally, I was turned off by the power dynamic that was shown and how OOC Nase seems to be- which again, boils down to her motives. She doesn't seem to have any other than wanting complete and utter control of Iijima... which isn't really Nase. Does she even like him? Is this some kind of roleplaying game they play? I was hoping for something at the end to indicate that she really does like him or that it's a game (through a little tenderness on her part, or even a little bit of fluff), but was disappointed. Give her a reason for being there, a motive behind the cruelty.
I'm not very good at concrit, sorry, and I've pretty much said things that have already been said, but I thought I'd put my two cents out there.
Thank you so much for the crit. It seems the problem with the fic is casting/characterization, which (as I was experimenting) is fair criticism, and definitely noted. People have caught me out on some things I had forgotten were there!
This has been an amazing meme if only for this entire concrit thread alone. Thank you.
Personal caveats: I don't even remember atwhat Iijima looks like in canon, so you have a VERY fresh set of eyes here. *reads*
First thoughts: - the writing style is nice from the beginning; why are they watching television?? It doesn't quite fit the context. You do a good job of showing Iijima sort of frozen in place, deer/headlights-ish, and that's endearing.
But there's a trade-off for trying to get that awkwardness across. You're falling victim to something that happens to a lot writers. You're focusing so much on setting up the scene that you're not giving us any real emotion from either of them, and there's not a clear tone to set the mood for us.
Example: what should be a really deeply sensual, flowing moment, like The liquid flowed translucent and faintly amber in the low light, and they stirred it in. The surface of the water was beginning to look a little frothy, and the bubbles smelled faintly of some sweet unidentifiable fruit. Iijima watched Nase bend down, sniff at the bubbles, and smile. He
( ... )
why are they watching television?? It doesn't quite fit the context. Ah--it was a mood-builder. I guess it might have distracted from the fic, but I took my cue from seeing (IRL) LCD TVs set into the sides of tubs/jacuzzis. Noted as unessential, and I'll have to think twice about including irrelevant detail in the future!
The farting joke was actual experience, and I shall remember the responses both you and the previous commenter made (since both of you commented on it!)
Thank you SO MUCH for the compliments on Iijima and my writing--they were sorely needed after 24 hours (okay, a little more) of giving myself an ulcer after that concrit post. I hope to do better in the future!
It may be very obvious I am not a regular smut writer, and oops, have I outed myself yet?
You could have mentioned the irrelevant detail to set the setting. Tell us the kind of hot tub they're in, sure. The tv actually being on and casting a glue light over Nase - that's a whole different level of detail. It makes me wonder why they didn't turn the tv off. It's the kind of detail you have to make good use of, because it could have contributed well to the whole sense of awkwardness they both felt. Otherwise, it just sits there distracting us like a giant lip wart.
(Also, just want to say I completely agree with the other anon review.)
I do think there's an emotional mood shift after Nase gets fed up with him that you didn't quite set us up for; you have to build her rising annoyance, and you didn't show me that, so it makes the mood-killing moment feel jarring. That said, you segue pretty quickly into Nase being the dominant one - which is fine, better than fine, hot; but also misleading, because we didn't see any signs of this Nase in the beginning of the fic.
The last half of this fic is hot, okay. Nice. But you almost lost me here: Iijima lowered his head, licking the nipple, and then he took it into his mouth and suckled on it, tasting the light tang of soap. Oh well. A little wouldn't hurt him.
- because it's that same tendency I mentioned earlier to focus on action and not on emotional response. Seriously. Put yourself in Iijima's hot tub right now. You've got Nase of all people in your arms and she's *naked* in the *water*, and you're putting your mouth on her *breast*. Are you
( ... )
Is it as bad as Trixie thinks it is?
Reply
iijima doesn't interest me at all, and frankly, i think nase can do a LOT better. this unfair personal prejudice is most likely why all of their interaction struck me as being really stilted and forced. and really, iijima seems just pathetic here. everything about this just feels really uncomfortable for him. =p i dunno, though, i'm not reading it with unbiased eyes, so.This is basically just saying 'I don't like the character you wrote about, so I didn't like this fic', which is -- so completely far removed from actual concrit it's not even funny? Her not liking the fic is pretty much akin to not liking chocolate and telling a world-class chocolatier that she didn't like his chocolate; it has no objective basis, and it's just as biased (and therefore irrelevant as real criticism) as she herself points it out to be ( ... )
Reply
- miura
Reply
Iijima jerked, stiffened, and cried her name brokenly as the water clouded around her fingers and his shame.This part was a little jarring; I'm not sure Iijima is quite so embarrassed about his sexuality so as to refer to it like that? The reader already knows that he's ashamed about coming; seeing it termed so concretely was a bit invasive, I think ( ... )
Reply
- miura
Reply
Reply
Nase was very difficult to write (as I said in a comment below--I think it was in response to "2."). I fully accept that weakness, and I don't know if I will be doing much more of her in the future, since writing this was painfully difficult.
Again, thank you very much. This has been some very useful crit, and I am pathetically grateful. Thank you.
[miura]
Reply
I'm not very good at concrit, sorry, and I've pretty much said things that have already been said, but I thought I'd put my two cents out there.
Reply
Thank you so much for the crit. It seems the problem with the fic is casting/characterization, which (as I was experimenting) is fair criticism, and definitely noted. People have caught me out on some things I had forgotten were there!
This has been an amazing meme if only for this entire concrit thread alone. Thank you.
[miura]
Reply
Personal caveats: I don't even remember atwhat Iijima looks like in canon, so you have a VERY fresh set of eyes here. *reads*
First thoughts:
- the writing style is nice from the beginning; why are they watching television?? It doesn't quite fit the context. You do a good job of showing Iijima sort of frozen in place, deer/headlights-ish, and that's endearing.
But there's a trade-off for trying to get that awkwardness across. You're falling victim to something that happens to a lot writers. You're focusing so much on setting up the scene that you're not giving us any real emotion from either of them, and there's not a clear tone to set the mood for us.
Example: what should be a really deeply sensual, flowing moment, like The liquid flowed translucent and faintly amber in the low light, and they stirred it in. The surface of the water was beginning to look a little frothy, and the bubbles smelled faintly of some sweet unidentifiable fruit. Iijima watched Nase bend down, sniff at the bubbles, and smile. He ( ... )
Reply
Ah--it was a mood-builder. I guess it might have distracted from the fic, but I took my cue from seeing (IRL) LCD TVs set into the sides of tubs/jacuzzis. Noted as unessential, and I'll have to think twice about including irrelevant detail in the future!
The farting joke was actual experience, and I shall remember the responses both you and the previous commenter made (since both of you commented on it!)
Thank you SO MUCH for the compliments on Iijima and my writing--they were sorely needed after 24 hours (okay, a little more) of giving myself an ulcer after that concrit post. I hope to do better in the future!
It may be very obvious I am not a regular smut writer, and oops, have I outed myself yet?
[miura]
Reply
Reply
I do think there's an emotional mood shift after Nase gets fed up with him that you didn't quite set us up for; you have to build her rising annoyance, and you didn't show me that, so it makes the mood-killing moment feel jarring. That said, you segue pretty quickly into Nase being the dominant one - which is fine, better than fine, hot; but also misleading, because we didn't see any signs of this Nase in the beginning of the fic.
The last half of this fic is hot, okay. Nice. But you almost lost me here:
Iijima lowered his head, licking the nipple, and then he took it into his mouth and suckled on it, tasting the light tang of soap. Oh well. A little wouldn't hurt him.
- because it's that same tendency I mentioned earlier to focus on action and not on emotional response. Seriously. Put yourself in Iijima's hot tub right now. You've got Nase of all people in your arms and she's *naked* in the *water*, and you're putting your mouth on her *breast*. Are you ( ... )
Reply
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I love this comment.
I love the concritter too. now that is concrit.
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