BtVS 5x22: The Gift [The Issue with Spuffy]

[istne_pieklo]

In my book, Buffy the Vampire Slayer (and Angel too) is a damn well near a perfect show. That is not to say I deny that they both have flaws (the treatment of Cordelia in Angel season 4 is the biggest one), but Joss creates such a perfect blend of amazing characterization, poignant and witty writing and great style that these flaws are hard to

Comments

[shirogiku]

Before "Intervention", Spike acted like Buffy was just the object of his feelings, something to project on. <3

I've been wondering when exactly the transition in Spike's attitude happens and this is fitting.

I love how this ship shows that seeing someone as a person (and respecting them) isn't the same thing as being in love and how being in love doesn't imply/automatically include those nice things.

Spike, in his soulless state, was still capable of becoming someone who would want to have a soul, who would accept the misery, the guilt and the self-loathing that come with it, process it and learn from it.

I love how that 8-issue Spike comic shows that too)))

I love both Buffy and Spike a ton, but objectively, they have both been pretty horrible to each other

the best paaaart bc we get to see them change and learn)))

[shirogiku]

UGH and of course I forgot the point of my comment - I think Spike says that to Buffy bc he /wants/ it to be true - he wants her to be the person to treat him that way, without even realising it maybe. So seems like a bit of make believe.

That or yes, this exchange should have been placed later on XD

[istne_pieklo]

LOL, happens to me all the time. XD
I think Spike says that to Buffy bc he /wants/ it to be true - he wants her to be the person to treat him that way, without even realising it maybe. So seems like a bit of make believe. That's actually a very good explanation. With that motivation, I'm willing to accept this scene. XDI still love it tbh. It's sweet, but not OTT, and it's what the both need at the moment. Besides, "The Gift" was originally supposed to be the series finale, not just s5 finale. So perhaps it was an attempt to resolve the Spuffy issue altogether.

[istne_pieklo]

I think Spike has several key moments of development, but I've noticed that most people place the emphasis of his post-rape attempt realizations in "Seeing Red". That's crucia, I agree, but I think "Intervention" is what begins the process. :)
seeing someone as a person (and respecting them) isn't the same thing as being in love and how being in love doesn't imply/automatically include those nice things. Thiiiis. Joss is masterful at these things! <333 I kind of think we've done a good job ourselves, with Nick and Einri ;)))

[istne_pieklo]

Hey, stranger. XD Long time no see)))
Oh, I don't think I can name a fav BtVS ep. To begin with, all of s6 is my favourite. But if we talk s5, I'd have to go with "The Body" - that's where the big ugly tears are for me. I didn't cry over "The Gift", idk why. Maybe because, having been spoiled, I knew Buffy would survive. But I do tear up a bit whenever I watch it.
LOL, I think Buffy is WTF-ing, yes. Or she's just very tired and completely focused on Dawn and Glory, and there's Spike talking his feels again. She's probably like: ...huh? yeah, whatever. XD But I guess the general consensus here is that what Spike says is what he wants to be true, so in light of that I'm more open-minded towards this scene))
People who hate on Buffy Summers need to join the Nina haters in the sixteenth circle of hell, where Crumb dances naked in front of you for all eternity while Mr Snow repeatedly rips out your intestines. I'll "thank" you for the mental image as soon as I stop laughing! I missed you XDD

[istne_pieklo]

I'm really sorry to hear that. Hope things would get better. :)
LOL, I saw those reblogs. IDK, I couldn't watch Teen Wolf. Should I try again? XD I saw half of the pilot but then I was like: No, I just can't. XD (Coming from smn who heroically watched all of Smallville, that's a bit lame, I know XD)))
Oh yes, that scene with Dawn is gorgeous.
Any show is flawed either way you look at it. But some flaws are easy to overlook or they at least don't ruin the love.
I concur! As far as hell dimensions go, even Joss couldn't have invented a scarier one! XDDD

[zoicite]

It's been so long since I've watched Buffy that I don't specifically remember this exchange, so I'm mostly just commenting to say that I'm really loving the Buffy meta and it's almost making me think that perhaps it's time for me to sit down and rewatch as well (but maybe just the last 3 or 4 seasons as I definitely remember less of them than I do the first three)

[istne_pieklo]

I'm a bit of an addict to this show XDD I watched it maaany times)) And the later seasons are my favourite, esp. season 6.
It'd be cool if you rewatched it too. ;))) More discussionssss XD

[rebcake]

I'm here from The SD Herald to respectfully disagree. Well, not about Cordelia, obviously. That whole thing was just wrong. Weirdly, I was discussing with my kid the next ep in my AtS rewatch, and how it was Cordelia's last episode and just...flames. Then I open this up, and woo hoo! Fandom solidarity!

So, the thing I v. v. slightly disagree about is whether Buffy treated Spike like a man at this point in the show. As you say, there was a change in her demeanor after Intervention. Perhaps I read too much into it, but it seems to me that she shows real trust in him from that point onward. She (offscreen) hatches a plan with him to get them all out of town, brooks no argument about whether he's coming, includes him - as much as any of the other Scoobies - as part of the gang all the way through the end of The Gift, even saying "I love you all, but..." (He wants clarification about that love statement, but she neither confirms nor denies. Heh

[istne_pieklo]

Cordy just makes my heart ache. T?T As much as Joss Whedon is nearly flawless in my eyes, that was just one major wtf and no-no-no! T_T

[rebcake]

I'm always struck by how Buffy immediately stops the name-calling and "shut up, Spike" stuff once she realizes how far he's willing to go to protect her/Dawn in Intervention.

I liken it to "Pride and Prejudice", when Lizzie discovers that Darcy is responsible for rescuing Lydia (and therefore the entire family) from a fate worse than death. All her preconceptions come tumbling down in an instant, and she is able to allow the attraction she'd been feeling/fighting blossom into something more. In Buffy's case, not much more, as there's an apocalypse a'brewing, and also because she's not wrong about all Spike's past misdeeds, the way Lizzie was. Still, that kiss seems to me to convey a bit more than "gee, thanks".

[istne_pieklo]

I think she still tells him to shut up a couple of times afterwards))
I love Lizzie and Darcy's dynamics. I agree that there is something like that between Spike and Buffy too, with an extra edge.

[auroramama]

Nice meta! A balanced approach, while still seeing the charisma and fascination of both characters.

[istne_pieklo]

Thank you. :)))