I remember being a young one and seeing the video for "More" as well. "A Slight Case of Overbombing" was my introduction to Goth, followed shortly by Mission UK, Joy Division, Fields of the Nephilim, Skinny Puppy, and Ministry. Then I discovered Cleopatra and it was smooth sailing from there on out.
I think you make some good points. It was a wonder to me that goth culture hadn't embraced the bands you mentioned. I love Editors, although I don't self-identify as goth so much anymore, so maybe there's part of the problem.
I'd sooner see the genre finish its decades-long implosion and just die already...so it can be reborn yet again in another ten or so years. The Goth aesthetic in music, especially, and in subcultural life in general tends to follow a cycle of births, deaths, and rebirths roughly every twenty to thirty years. The last great efflorescence lasted from the late '70s until the early 2000s--it's time for it to disappear beneath the earth for a rest so it'll be ready for the next great cycle starting in about 2020.
You are right there: everything is proceeding at a faster pace these days, of course--even subcultural cycles. Pretty soon the cycle will be completing its period in a matter of weeks rather than months.
i would probably explode if i saw rammstein & combichrist. i did see combichrist open for kmdfm a few years back, and was slightly ashamed that i enjoyed their set more than the headliner. defnintely not GOOD, but catchy and fun. i see people's hatred of rammstein based mainly on the "well they're popular now and i have to be different so i can't like them anymore", and think that the criticism that they're just watered down laibach to be people assuming that all grumbly voiced german lyric having metal influenced music sounds the same. if anything, shit like that got me straight b's through three years of college german. :) and its not like 95% of goth/industrial bands dont sound the same anyway
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I think that Slick Idiot is where the heart of what made KMFDM great ended up.
When Becki and I were on vacation last, we put in Rammstein while on the road - I daresay the tunes have held up.
You've succinctly summed up the awfulness of the Cruxshadows. Marian, My Bitterness, is a lyrical train wreck of self-involvement. But, this story you mention?
a friend of mine opened for slick idiot awhile back, and pretty much agreed with you. i'm not too familiar with them, and i keep meaning to fix that
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I still identify myself as a Goth, but will admit that my interests have certainly broadened. Something that getting older will do to a person, or at least, should, if a person is to grow. At the same time, I think forgetting or disdaining one's early passions can be just as dangerous as not changing at all.
I've actually been trying to move away from using the word scene, instead calling it a community. To me, that represents a nexus point - the intersection of people, places, and interests.
Wow, The Cruxshadows as sonic waterboarding! I shouldn't be surprised, as nasal as Rogue's voice is...
I don't think it's fair to say that if someone doesn't care for The Editors or She Wants Revenge, they're being a snobbish asshole about it (I can't stand either of those bands!).
I'll admit that they draw elements from early Goth acts like Joy Division, but not much more than any number of Indie Rock and Electroclash bands.
One of the many things I hate about Hipsterism is the watering down of subcultures, whether it's Metal or Goth. The Editors and SWR cannot act as a gateway while that philosophy of dabbling exists.
That's why I say those popular mediocre acts needs to get bigger - because they came from the Goth/Industrial trenches, and remain undeniably a part of it, for better or worse.
and last night i went to the goth club, death guild, in san francisco. i always get frustrated there because i like a lot of room to dance. there are thousands just like it and i love them all and they're all crowded.
the thing with pittsburgh as far as i have experienced is that there is no consistency in goth nights, and maybe that is because of the low-turn out. maybe it's because the scene is so small. maybe it's small because the city is spread apart and public transportation sucks. maybe it's small because everyone hates each other. i don't know. but this isn't my experience in other places - bigger cities but also cities like denver, which i think has the best goth scene in the US.
and there are all of these different scenes within the scene. i forgot that cxs were so popular because i don't know anyone who listens to them. every club does play combichrist, though, and it is a little annoying. but i like vnv.
I've never been out to California - something I need to rectify. I've been up and down the east coast and far overseas, but never farther west than Ohio.
Pittsburgh is indeed smaller, so I think the problems that beset all cities are amplified. And with citing consistency as a problem, you're hitting the nail on the head. A band that draws 100 people once could easily draw 40 the next.
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I don't doubt that these things are cyclic, but I think that the cycles of popularity have shortened, and are completing on faster terms.
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When Becki and I were on vacation last, we put in Rammstein while on the road - I daresay the tunes have held up.
You've succinctly summed up the awfulness of the Cruxshadows. Marian, My Bitterness, is a lyrical train wreck of self-involvement. But, this story you mention?
Reply
Reply
I still identify myself as a Goth, but will admit that my interests have certainly broadened. Something that getting older will do to a person, or at least, should, if a person is to grow. At the same time, I think forgetting or disdaining one's early passions can be just as dangerous as not changing at all.
I've actually been trying to move away from using the word scene, instead calling it a community. To me, that represents a nexus point - the intersection of people, places, and interests.
Wow, The Cruxshadows as sonic waterboarding! I shouldn't be surprised, as nasal as Rogue's voice is...
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
I'll admit that they draw elements from early Goth acts like Joy Division, but not much more than any number of Indie Rock and Electroclash bands.
One of the many things I hate about Hipsterism is the watering down of subcultures, whether it's Metal or Goth. The Editors and SWR cannot act as a gateway while that philosophy of dabbling exists.
That's why I say those popular mediocre acts needs to get bigger - because they came from the Goth/Industrial trenches, and remain undeniably a part of it, for better or worse.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Reply
and last night i went to the goth club, death guild, in san francisco. i always get frustrated there because i like a lot of room to dance. there are thousands just like it and i love them all and they're all crowded.
the thing with pittsburgh as far as i have experienced is that there is no consistency in goth nights, and maybe that is because of the low-turn out. maybe it's because the scene is so small. maybe it's small because the city is spread apart and public transportation sucks. maybe it's small because everyone hates each other. i don't know. but this isn't my experience in other places - bigger cities but also cities like denver, which i think has the best goth scene in the US.
and there are all of these different scenes within the scene. i forgot that cxs were so popular because i don't know anyone who listens to them. every club does play combichrist, though, and it is a little annoying. but i like vnv.
i do not know what my point is.
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Pittsburgh is indeed smaller, so I think the problems that beset all cities are amplified. And with citing consistency as a problem, you're hitting the nail on the head. A band that draws 100 people once could easily draw 40 the next.
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