(Untitled)

[jennibel]

…“hell is other people” has always been misunderstood. it has been thought that what i meant by that was that our relations with other people are always poisoned, that they are invariably hellish relations. but what i really mean is something totally different. i mean that if relations with someone else are twisted, vitiated, then that other person

Comments

[vhaln_zur]

seems like he's talking about being afraid of what other people think of us?

oh no, not the anorexic satyr again...

[jennibel]

i'm unsure about "afraid" being the right word here... i had always thought it was more of just an "awareness". when trying to know yourself, that other people's interpretation of you could influence things. what if they get you totally wrong, even your closest friends and family, and then reflect that back onto you, as who you are. that's wrong, isn't it... only you can know who you are, finally. that can create a sort of hell, when what everyone else's idea of you, and therefore what they reflect back to you, differs from your own. or what if you aren't even especially that introspective, and don't really know yourself all that well, and base your self-perception on what other people tell you you are, even if it's totally not based anywhere in reality.

i don't know... does that even make any sense? i fear i'm better at understanding trick wording on inane forwards than understanding some other things in life...

i like how this guy explains things-

[jennibel]

http://www.lclark.edu/~clayton/commentaries/hell.html

a social body that supports our individuality?

[vhaln_zur]

am i misunderstanding, or does he talk about it as if there are only degrees of recognition, rather than people seeing each other in all different sorts of ways? if all people had to do was acknowledge each other, things would be a lot simpler, wouldn't they?

if we expect each other to support our imagined mutual ideal of what the greater social body should be, we're bound to run into problems, when other people and their individualities have other ideas. i'm almost inclined to say the positive note he ends on is exactly what makes other people hell. the ways people expect each other to conform to the whole social body bit, rather than just letting each other be. or even appreciating individuality separately from all that.

[anonymous]

"Into whatever I say about myself someone else’s judgment always enters."

Huh, have to disagree with this one.

'I pick my nose to often.'
Sure, a few people told me this, but me saying that is not necessarily affected by that, but only by the fact that I really do pick my nose often. How often? Well, whenever I sit and one of my hands is free! Would I not be aware of this fact if my friends didn't point it out to me? I doubt.

There is some objectivity to reality. It is not only the mix of subjectivities of people surrounding me.

[vhaln_zur]

True, but when others are judging us, we have some idea of what they know about us. Thus we judge ourselves based on what we think others think they know. That's not to say reality is subjective, but to emphasize the convoluted importance of our interactions with others in how we think about ourselves.