Interesting ideas. And you've touched on one of my pet peeves: that schools only really work for a certain type of person. This is a problem because it leaves a lot of people in the lurch. And in fact, if you take a deep look into things, you'll find that the current school system that we use was originally designed to socialize kids and teach them all of society's favourite paradigms and propaganda, and not to actually educate
( ... )
I see the advantages to standardizes testing, and yes of course I agree I would like my nurses and doctors and electricians to be qualified. I think I am talking more about compulsory school rather than university. Because university and college is optional. (Though some people don't realize it :P) The point is if you want to become a doctor than yes, you will have to go through lots of schooling. But if you want it then you CHOSE to do it. Nobody chooses high school, it is forced upon us. We think we have no choice, lest we become junkies and die on the street
( ... )
Autodidactism is fine and all. I still teach myself most of what I want to know, despite being in University.
You do run a big chance of reinventing the wheel when you try to teach yourself. You could be struggling with a problem that an expert has already solved. This is especially true in the arts: it's extremely hard to learn guitar without someone guiding you, I've found. In my economics classes, it's all memorization, and there's hardly anything you couldn't learn on your own. However, my philosophy classes are invaluable - there is no way I could have learned so much without picking the brains of my professors. So I think authority is quite valuable.
When I say teach yourself, I don't mean learning completely by yourself, without teachers or books or courses or something. If we didn't go to wiser people to find answers we would, as you said, be reinventing the wheel. What I am saying is that by forcing the teachings and learnings on kids, it makes them not want to learn what you are teaching. The difference is that you are seeking out the guidance rather than having it forced upon you.
Basically we are much more willing to learn if we have the OPTION. The fact that compulsory school is, well, compulsory, means the learning is being forced on you, and nobody wants to do something when they are forced.
This is exactly what I have learned all about in my sociology of education class that I keep telling you about, except they called it "deschooling". As someone in a teacher education program I actually have the know how to say that so many people who want to become teachers agree with these ideas and want to have more constructivist learning environments (go read about constructivism right now!!!!!). Damnit you need to come to my school!
Believe it or not I really do feel that being in the system teaches people something invaluable that they can't get anywhere else: how to deal with the system. Cause who wants to spend their life thinking that everything is unfair and have no tools to do anything about it? It teaches you when to pick your battles and how to go about it.
Read the book, The Teenage Liberation Handbook. I was actually going to buy it and lend it to you when I get back, but if you can get your hands on the copy before I get there, I think it's a really fascinating take on education. And as an educator yourself it would be a really good perspective.
I see what you mean about learning ton be in the system, but that idea functions under the assumption that all the rest of life is just as institutionalized. And once you have been in that institution all your life it IS difficult to imagine life outside of it, but there are countless life options out there that fall outside the 'system', and in that case school is training you for a very narrow way of life. My friend has been educated outside of the system and does just fine dealing with life. In fact I would argue it creates an ability to find creative solutions with dealing with the system.
i agree with kenj on that last bit- we need to learn to deal with stupid systems and its a sad fact that we have to also learn to do things we just don't like doing. i hated high school, and found most of it pretty useless, but i think that many kids just would not be able to handle taking their education into their own hands. Some are just too immature (not in a derogatory sense, but just that some kids are more mature at 14 than others are at 18) to handle a structureless or self-structured environment. I look at my brothers and some people i have had classes with and probably even myself, and unschooling or selfschooling just would not have worked. I find that the university system is pretty well laid out- lecture-style in the younger years seminars in the upper years with discussion groups throughout. I would love to ditch some of the compulsory courses, and i would if they were not mandatory, but they are things i need to have taken in order for my degree to mean anything. I dunno about high school, i think of it as 4 years of
( ... )
And see I disagree - there are countless examples of kids taking their education into their own hands and, as a result, becoming more responsible and mature. The school systems make kids lazy and passive by spoon-feeding them information and make most kids expect that in order to learn something, they need a teacher to essentially shove it in their face. This essentially breeds the immaturity and laziness we see in most schooled kids. The reason why we think (and so many kids think) kids can't deal with a structureless environment is because they have been institutionalized. But if they are given freedom to investigate the topics that interest them, and given the space and time to develop interests in an unpressured environment, they will WANT to learn. Furthurmore they will gain a greater sense of responsibility and self worth for having created it on their own. I equate it with the sense of self worth I got when I was able to organize and achieve my trip to Ireland all by myself
( ... )
I think what I'm having trouble grasping about this whole situation is a how we can expect children to decide for themselves wether or not a formal education is right for them. Also, I have worries about the socialization part. I think you've glazed over the subject a little bit (unless you addressed it further and I missed it). Okay, you can sign kids up for sports and clubs, and such, but they will still spend much less time around other kids. Institutionalized children spend 6 or 7 hours together 5 days a week. Another concern I have is about the time the parents would have to take. Parents would need to actively teach their children math and english and a number of other topics until the children were old enough to become more independent. Could there maybe be a balance? Like institutionalized learning up until grade 6, then independant learning?
I'm pretty torn on the whole issue. But I would definitely like to learn more. Where do you think I could find a copy of that book?
The thing is, children are only immature and lazy because we, as adults, tell them that they are. We tell them that they are too young to make decisions and that they are too young to understand and that they have to listen simply because they are the child, and we are the adult. We show them they are lazy by spoon-feeding them the answers and holding their hands. In the book there are countless examples of teenagers who do things for themselves. I think they can make mature decisions and take responsibility if we give them the chance to
( ... )
By the way I am buying a copy so if you don't mind waiting (I have my sister and Kendra to lend it to first) I could probably lend it to you at some point!
Comments 20
Interesting ideas. And you've touched on one of my pet peeves: that schools only really work for a certain type of person. This is a problem because it leaves a lot of people in the lurch. And in fact, if you take a deep look into things, you'll find that the current school system that we use was originally designed to socialize kids and teach them all of society's favourite paradigms and propaganda, and not to actually educate ( ... )
Reply
Reply
You do run a big chance of reinventing the wheel when you try to teach yourself. You could be struggling with a problem that an expert has already solved. This is especially true in the arts: it's extremely hard to learn guitar without someone guiding you, I've found. In my economics classes, it's all memorization, and there's hardly anything you couldn't learn on your own. However, my philosophy classes are invaluable - there is no way I could have learned so much without picking the brains of my professors. So I think authority is quite valuable.
Reply
Basically we are much more willing to learn if we have the OPTION. The fact that compulsory school is, well, compulsory, means the learning is being forced on you, and nobody wants to do something when they are forced.
Reply
Believe it or not I really do feel that being in the system teaches people something invaluable that they can't get anywhere else: how to deal with the system. Cause who wants to spend their life thinking that everything is unfair and have no tools to do anything about it? It teaches you when to pick your battles and how to go about it.
Reply
I see what you mean about learning ton be in the system, but that idea functions under the assumption that all the rest of life is just as institutionalized. And once you have been in that institution all your life it IS difficult to imagine life outside of it, but there are countless life options out there that fall outside the 'system', and in that case school is training you for a very narrow way of life. My friend has been educated outside of the system and does just fine dealing with life. In fact I would argue it creates an ability to find creative solutions with dealing with the system.
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Also, I have worries about the socialization part. I think you've glazed over the subject a little bit (unless you addressed it further and I missed it). Okay, you can sign kids up for sports and clubs, and such, but they will still spend much less time around other kids. Institutionalized children spend 6 or 7 hours together 5 days a week.
Another concern I have is about the time the parents would have to take. Parents would need to actively teach their children math and english and a number of other topics until the children were old enough to become more independent. Could there maybe be a balance? Like institutionalized learning up until grade 6, then independant learning?
I'm pretty torn on the whole issue. But I would definitely like to learn more. Where do you think I could find a copy of that book?
Reply
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment