What is the Purpose of Feminism?

[thornythalia]

So I've been thinking.

Comments

[freaky_eggplant]

Although it is important to be educated about your choices (no matter how trivial they may seem, like shaving your legs) I think as soon as you start criticising someone for exercising a choice in a way that coincides with tradition/patriarchy/whatnot, it's just as bad as not allowing them the choice in the first place.

[lonelygodess]

+1

[seasontoseason]

why? why is criticism seen as this huge awful thing we should try to avoid? Feminism is criticism. It is ideology-critique of patriarchy and its ideological commitments.

I don't think that criticism means telling people they are wrong or shaming people or trying to draw insanely restrictive sectarian lines between people. However, sometimes people feel uncomfortable feelings when they are shown that something they do-- something they like to do, especially-- is not their free choice, or is in some way implicated in patriarchy. That sucks, but does it really mean that we should just stop any time anyone gets uncomfortable?

[drummerlotte]

I argee, however pretending that that choice was made in a vacuum instead of real life is even worse. I'm not saying someone does not have the ability to make the choice to for example not shave their legs because it itches, however you can't deny that the mere fact that shaving your legs is supported by society and seen as proper, hasn't partially played a part in the decision. To illustrate this further, imagine someone who made the choice not to shave their legs, no matter why they made the decision, society does not approve and will give you a hard time because of it. The choice to defy society will always remain a much more difficult and inaccessible choice than to comply and on an subconscious level this will play a part in the decision. Making people aware of this is not necessarily critisizing it. It may even change the decisions people make.

[eowyn797]

she has to tailor her choices based on what other people might think? doesn't sound very "feminist" to me.

if she wants to explain that she didn't like her last name, whatever... it's not what everyone else thinks of you, it's what you think of you that counts.

[lady_borg]

Keep in mind that not everybody shaves their legs because of the ideal that hairy is not femenine...I picked up the razor and chose myself. I understand what you are saying and for the most part I agree please accept that not everyone does it because they saw it in a magazine

[seasontoseason]

I think it is legitimate to say that you chose to shave but NOT legitimate to say that you chose freely. Any women who shave (unless they have some random medical problem that requires them to shave-- if that's even possible) do it because of the influence of the dominant culture, i.e. "what they saw in a magazine." (except it isn't ONE magazine or JUST magazines, obviously)

[lady_borg]

nope...I did because I dont like the feeling of body hair. Aside from whats on my head...I dislike the feeling. I also wear pants and tights and with my skin I get rashes from long hair rubbing up against the fabric...I also get massive ingrowns. No one told me to shave and I have never read girly mags and I never watched much tv. I always read computer mags.
Before I started shaving I got major red rashes all over my legs. The moment I started shaivng they ceased almost immediantly. (The then I found out that the rest was a different rash and in fact ezcema)

I really dont like it when other people tell me I did something for whatever reason when I know I did not.

[feanelwa]

I stopped because I do like the feeling of hair. I wear loose trousers or long skirts and am always comfortable. Good to meet another aesthete.

[lavendersparkle]

This conversation reminds me of this article in The OnionI disagree with both of the views of feminism that you've outlined, because both of them view feminism as just a way for women to make relatively minor lifestyle choices. To me, feminism is about tearing down the systematic oppression of women, and acknowledging and fighting intersecting oppressions. That can't be achieved simply by women modifying their behaviour. I get that examining the way in which we've internalised our oppression and that influences our choices is an important part of our liberation, but it can't be the be all and end all of it. Short of upping sticks and forming a self-sufficient feminist separatist commune, we can't escape gender based oppression through our own lifestyle choices. I don't think that keeping one's birth name or not shaving ones legs are particularly 'feminist actions' compared to challenging misogynistic language and assumptions made by those around us, providing support for victims of gender based violence, raising our children to

[seasontoseason]

I agree with your whole post until we get to the final sentence. I'm not sure how you've picked what goes in the "worth doing" list versus the "not particularly feminist actions" list. For example it isnt immediately obvious to me that "challenging misogynistic language" challenges the "assumptions of those around us" any more or less than not shaving does. Both are public. Both threaten "average joe", as evidenced by the fact that average joe usually has a strong reaction to both (be it making a point to make fun of or insult hairy legs, or becoming strongly defensive when called on a misogynistic comment). All of these things are intertwined, because all of them are part of patriarchy (and its assumptions and norms) and the binary gender system

[lavendersparkle]

I was trying to differentiate between things which have an effect upon other people and things which don't. I forgot that for a lot of women, whether they shave their legs does have an effect on other people because, for a number of reasons, no one ever notices whether or not I shave my legs. If you interact with people who do notice whether you shave your legs it does have an effect because it could challenge beauty standards.

I just think that there's a perception that feminism is all about making the right feminist choices and that will make you magically immune from patriarchy.

[seasontoseason]

Oh ok, I see more what you were getting at now.

if no one you interact with ever notices whether you shave your legs or not you're really lucky and-- I would think-- atypical.

Also, though, I think everything we do effects people around us. I mean, say you had a young daughter. I'm sure she would notice whether you shaved your legs or not. She might not comment on it, but she would definitely notice it. Kids are so attune to things like that, and kids are demonstrably aware of gender norms at surprisingly young ages.

Children are, I think, a good example of how even the most "personal" things we do effect society at large. In a way, not shaving could be seen as part of "raising our children to question sexism." We raise them and then they go out into the world and influence untold amounts of other people.

[feanelwa]

I changed my surname because a father that calls me stupid and tries to get me to become an admin assistant is not getting his name on my Physics degree. Then I found out that the grandfather whose name I changed it to was in some ways even worse. Now I could change it to fiance's name, but then I would not have the same name as the one on my published papers. Every name comes from some man, and all of the ones I'm related to seem to be people I wouldn't name even a goldfish after. I almost want to not have a surname any more.

[obeseskeleton]

i hate my name just because it's a euphamism, but i'm too lazy to trace my entire maternal lineage to the first use of family names and that makes me sad

[feralbirdgirl]

My best professor ever was a Dr. Kaye - Kaye being her former middle name because she came from a less than awesome family and ended up divorcing a less than awesome husband.

Hubby and I each kept our names because we're published as ourselves =)