From Salon.com (occasional emphasis mine)

[leftwinger]

...[Victor Davis] Hanson has been joined by a couple of other lonely war hawks in denouncing torture, including Andrew Sullivan and blogger Sebastian Holsclaw, who weighed in earlier this month: "President Bush must be shown that the Republican Party is not willing to stand for the perversion of our moral standards," Holsclaw wrote. "The Republican

Comments

[limejellybeans]

I think America is taking "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" wayyyy...too far. And to think, the people in this country have nothing to say about this lot.
Then again, I can't really tell you what's wrong with these people, I haven't recieved my proper training yet. :-)

[ehowru]

Wait until US soldiers are tortured for information...

[seraphimsigrist]

Just to take up the thought here and raise a question
without intending to be aggressive but if it can be done
as one might at a pub over a beer and understanding
a common respect whatever...if this is possible then
are you suggesting that the use of durress
in interrogation is more accepted by conservatives
than liberals and under republican than democratic
presidencies? I would think that would be naive
as to the second part,t as to the first
I am not at all sure on that ,I expect you will find
liberals find many justifications for abuses under
Castro or Allende or some tinhorn leftist in the
glory days of that lot in Angola or on the other
hand now in Zimbabwe and so on...
they turned away when Aristede said there is nothing
as fine as the smell of burning rubber from the necklacing
of his opponents, and now Aristide is gone are there not
some on the left who remember him as a grand fellow?

[leftwinger]

I am no fan of torture regardless of the political persuasion of the torturer. It is outrageous to me that America is routinely engaging in torture or being complicit in torture of our suspects by other nations, and that such action has the tacit support of a political movement that prides itself on its moral underpinnings.

augustine etc

[seraphimsigrist]

but I am proposing that liberals
operate in the same way justifying as
necessary if regretable that which furthers
their heros. or they ignore it or refuse
to know. are you saying that conservatives
not liberals have moral underpinnings and
should be the more held responsible?

my own feeling is of course to be against torture
and at the same time to suppose there are difficult
cases...the necessary and the good as it was said...
but ther are distinctions to be made in what is
done. st augustine on pressure on montanists
(or no donatists it was) was an opener of the
door perhaps for real abuse but ought not be
conflated with torquemada etc

Re: augustine etc

[leftwinger]

I think it's really crappy to argue that I can't take a stand against torture now because the political movement to which I associate myself has in the past refused to do so. I am no Che-loving, Castro-apologizing, Pinochet worshipping bitch. Shame on the Democrats for doing so in the past, and shame on the Republicans for what they're doing today.

The trouble with this line of argument is that it's going to quickly go down a slippery slope. Should I never trust Republicans because of their historic racist roots in the South, because of Nixon, Iran-Contra, etc.?

There is also an outright difference between duress and torture. I am not against pressure. I am against beating people senseless, destroying their minds, and strapping electrodes to their genitals, among other things.

[quisim]

when you find out, will you let me know?

dear unbaptized wannabe 'Jebbie' --

[falcon13]

give it up, dood! those are bad guys and need to be tortured. they are getting in the way of spreading Christianity amongst the heathen raghead allah-worshipping bomb-toting scumbags. how can we export U.S. democracy and religious right-thinking if we can't extract important info from the very terrorist scum who are attempting to deny W his place in the history books? gotta think about it . . . we're right . . . they're dirt. screw 'em and the camel they rode in on.