meta: The Memory of Snow: The Snowmen.

Dec 27, 2012 14:12

For me this was just a totally fantastic Christmas special. I don't have an awful lot to say about the actual plot involving the Great Intelligence, but there's a whole heap of stuff going on around the concepts of mirroring, memory, above/below, who Clara is and there's some links into the Pond era.

Run you clever boy...and remember. )

myth and metaphor, damn you moffat, meta, doctor who

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elisi December 27 2012, 15:22:17 UTC
All good stuff. :)

Don't have anything to add, but my main thought now is that Clara is a Gallifreyan egg, seeded throughout time and space.

OK, one other thing:

Walter Simeon is a mirror of the Doctor.
Richard E. Grant also played the 10th Doctor in The Curse of Fatal Death, and voiced the Ninth Doctor in an animated adventure (long before the show returned). So he's a mirror several times over. :)

(I have been exceptionally lazy this Christmas. Might just point people over here for meta as you seem to have written down most of what's in my head, plus more.)

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lonewytch December 27 2012, 18:11:03 UTC
Oooh, a Gallifreyan egg. I like it a lot. Yeah, it's a shame about her not being his daughter (because surely Moff wouln't take it down that road..would he?) But the thing with the stairs being like a DNA strip sits with that. What I wonder now is whether he will meets a modern Clara who travels with him, that was we will have had past Clara, future Clara and present-clara who occupies and stabilises the space inbetween, mythically, and who will help him unravel the puzzle.

Didn't know that about Richard E Grant!

Glad you enjoyed sweetie :)

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janie_aire December 27 2012, 16:23:00 UTC
Missing you!

Just getting started on my meta, running late with all the family activities going on, just skimmed your stuff, like what I squee!

A few points...

"Now the dream outlives the dreamer..." = "What if we had ideas that could think for themselves? What if one day our dreams no longer needed us? When these things occur and are held to be true, the time will be upon us."

re: Winter is coming... zombies crossing the snow, versus the snowbound zombies of Asylum?

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elisi December 27 2012, 17:23:38 UTC
"Now the dream outlives the dreamer..." = "What if we had ideas that could think for themselves? What if one day our dreams no longer needed us? When these things occur and are held to be true, the time will be upon us."
That was the other thing I meant to comment on - I was going to hunt down that quote, and forgot! Time of Angels. I very, very much hope this will be a feature. (Ooooh, thought. If Clara Oswin Oswald is indeed a Gallifreyan egg, could she be a 'dream' that has become self-aware/sentient? Clara Who?)

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lonewytch December 27 2012, 18:16:44 UTC
Love that idea, of a Gallifreyan time egg that's become self aware. An idea seeded by the Time Lords that no longer needs their technology to birth itself. Perhaps an insurance policy, seeded during the Time War. Maybe she's dreamt herself into awareness. So that would make her his equal rather than a relative. If she is a Time Lady I would love it to bits.

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elisi December 27 2012, 18:53:53 UTC
Love that idea, of a Gallifreyan time egg that's become self aware. An idea seeded by the Time Lords that no longer needs their technology to birth itself. Perhaps an insurance policy, seeded during the Time War.
Exactly where my thoughts are converging. I'd say definitely something Time Lord/Gallifreyan. Partly because of her intelligence (see Oswin specifically, although even Clara kept up with the Doctor's mind quite easily), and partly because she cried when she saw the TARDIS...

RORY: Right. Er... You're crying.
AMY: So I am. Why am I doing that?

Hidden memories and multiple lives... And past/present/future all rolled into one person/thing (like a TARDIS, although I don't think she's directly linked). I liked the granddaughter idea, but I think Clara Oswin Oswald will go far beyond something so simple...

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lonewytch December 27 2012, 18:34:45 UTC
Oooh, nice catch! I did pick up on the bit where he is signalling to her, and I linked it in my mind to the bit where he sends her away in the carriage driven by Strax, and just before she goes he presses his hand to the glass as if in denial or regret. But I totally missed the Punch bit.

Yeah, it's an interesting idea you suggest, and i wonder if we'll see it play out in the latter half of the series. The use of hands as a motif came up over and over in series 6 too.

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amy8benson January 5 2013, 15:07:02 UTC
I wonder if it could be a nod to the Ten's right hand, that was cut off in "The Christmas Invasion" and became Ten Two in "Journey's End".

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lonewytch December 27 2012, 18:35:32 UTC
Thanks, glad you liked. Ah, yeah of course, thought I'd heard it in Who before but couldn't place where!!

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keypike December 27 2012, 17:06:48 UTC
Brilliant analysis!

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lonewytch December 27 2012, 18:36:13 UTC
Thank you so much i'm glad you liked it :D

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