Discussion: Army of Ghosts and Doomsday
A discussion - all welcome - on the final two episodes of last season's Dr Who. Answer or comment on every number, or just choose the ones that engage you. Happy New Year!
Hopefully The Runaway Bride will follow...
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Hopefully The Runaway Bride will follow...
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Comments 17
The Doctor probably makes this decision once he realizes that people can jump from one reality to another. Remember that he keeps trying to get Pete to accept Jackie, and therefore Rose by default.
3. What exactly does the Doctor mean by "a footprint doesn't look like a boot"?
The image that the ghosts make is not exactly what they are. A footprint is a reverse impression of the bottom of a boot. When you look at it, it's not a representation of the boot itself.
4. Does Jackie's speech, "You've changed so much...it won't be Rose Tyler" have any impact on Rose?
No, not really. I don't think she cared. She still jumped back to be with The Doctor when she had the chance.
Does it somehow have an impact on the Doctor, although he doesn't appear to hear it?
I'm sure the Doctor ( ... )
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I could, but it would be news to me that a President was ever in charge in Washington, much less one with a below-average IQ. It's the guys and gals standing behind him you gotta watch out for.
I keep wondering if the Doctor will kick Jack's ass or hug/snog him. It's a toss up.
My guess is that they'll both sit around sobbing into their beer about Rose.
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Yes, well you've seen them, too. Haven't you? We've all come to the conclusion that we're pretty much screwed.
My guess is that they'll both sit around sobbing into their beer about Rose.
Oh, I really want to make a "hand to hold" joke about the hand in the hub - but I won't.
*biting my lip*
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What does this exchange say about Torchwood's ethos? In particular, about its attitude to other life forms v the Doctor's attitude to humans?
Well, it's funny because they don't view the Doctor the same as other aliens. He's in their charter but they almost admire him. They want to keep him but they need his help. I don't think they treat other prisoners/aliens quite the same way, that is comfortably. They figure if they treat him right, he'll stay right where they put him. We don't really know what happened to the other aliens do we?
The Doctor knows that humans screw up but he still likes them. Torchwood views every alien as hostile and a threat. Ironically, this is the Doctor's fault because of the interaction with Queen Victoria. Torchwood's philosophy is "different = threat" whereas the Doctor is entertained by humans, most of the time. That is when they aren't opening the void and sucking Rose into it.
9. Are your ( ... )
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I thought it was a given that the concept of religion was still happening, because these Daleks are the Famous Cult of [so famous I can't remember the name of it]. They have names and all, and are "above" the Emperor. I thought the Daleks named it, because to them it's a re-beginning, whereas to the Time Lords it was only a prison ship.
Well, he's really making a promise that he can't keep regarding Rose. He has to know that she'll never stay willingly.
I agree with your latter assertion, but not the former. I think he has no intention of giving her a choice in the matter, until she defuses him by coming back anyway. ("You're our prisoner, but we'll make you perfectly comfortable.")
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Okay, my Who history is weak but I thought the concept of religion was due to the infection of human DNA into the Dalek genome when the Daleks used human tissue to repopulate (Parting of the Ways). No eh?
And it's the Cult of Skaro as in the home planet of the Daleks :)
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I didn't mean that he knew he couldn't keep it just that the Doctor should have learned by now that he shouldn't make promises regarding what Rose will do. She never does what he wants her to do. If he didn't learn his lesson when she looked into the Time Vortex there really is no hope for him. He probably thought sending her back in the TARDIS was foolproof and she still found a way back in Parting of the Ways.
If you notice, he picked up two magnaclamps and not one in Doomsday!
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Mickey, watching the Cybermen talking to the Daleks: It's like Stephen Hawking meeting the Talking Clock.
So much Mickey love. And are we amazed that Rose knew who Stephen Hawking was? Maybe the Doctor's been teaching her a few things?
13. a) The Cybermen have frequently been compared by critics to the Nazis and other fascist groups prone to all think the same, march about in phalanxes and kill people without making any attempt to get at the truth (which would include Stalin's and Mao's Communists). Do you agree with this, and whether you do or not, do you think they have any relevance to today's world?
That's a bit weird in light of the way the Cybermen work in the new Who. In the new Who it's convert or be deleted. Unless of course you are incompatible but we don't know what criteria determines compatibility. It appears to be some arbitrary designation. With the Nazi's it was genetic superiority and by a lesser degree, political affiliation and sexual ( ... )
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Well, a majority of your flist is going to say Microsoft. :D
Gosh. You'd nearly convinced me the Cybermen were Microsoft!
#14. Can you explain more about "the evil within Rose"?
#17. I don't buy it either. I adore the moment when Rose and the Doctor are in parallel worlds but can 'feel' each other on either side of the wall, but that's something else.
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Hey now!
#14. Can you explain more about "the evil within Rose"?
Well, Bad Wolf is really Rose. It's a hidden part of Rose that only appeared when the Doctor was in trouble, but still a part of Rose. She created 'herself'. She is the Bad Wolf. The Doctor sacrificed himself to remove the Time Vortex from her but the essence that allowed her to create the Bad Wolf remains. If you believe that the Bad Wolf is evil, then that evil is within Rose.
I don't buy it either. I adore the moment when Rose and the Doctor are in parallel worlds but can 'feel' each other on either side of the wall, but that's something else.
Well, that's still them. The unique sum of their experiences have combined to form what they are to each other. It's not just two bodies who happen to look like each other's mates in parallel worlds. It's the connection of the Doctor and Rose.
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*laughs* It would have had to have been before The Girl in the Fireplace wouldn't it? Because if it was me, I would have packed my bags then. Probably, shortly after her talk with Sarah Jane in School Reunion. If you remember, she was considering whether or not she should stay and Sarah Jane said "Some things are worth getting your heart broken for."
19. What do you make of the fact that Yvonne's sense of duty (which sounds like the Nuremberg defence - I was only following orders - when she is led away by the Cybermen) is in fact so powerful that it remains after her "upgrade" and allows her to thwart the Cybermen?
No sympathy. I thought of Nuremberg as well. If her sense of duty was that strong, it's a good thing she's dead/cyberized. She would have destroyed the country.
20. "I'm burning up a sun just to say good-bye ( ... )
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But that's my point. Even after she's cyberized, she is still able to act independently from her sense of duty. That makes her an individual as a Cyberman, which means there's something special going on.
burning up a sun is one hell of a way to get your point across.
ITA. I don't think the Doctor needed to Say It after that, though I also think there was no doubt he was about to when the sun went out.
I haven't heard the soundtrack. I'll look out for those songs.
Can I just say that my love for RTD knows no bounds?
Likewise, I'm sure. What cheeses me off about B/Mers is that they're so stupid they think B/M is analagous to S/V in the original. I'm convinced Vince was based on RTD, which means B/Mers believe Michael is based on RTD. To them I say: GET.REAL.
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True, or we could argue that she was one of the shoddy conversions, like Lisa. The process wasn't complete. Also in AoS the emotional inhibitors didn't always work. Things went wrong.
ITA. I don't think the Doctor needed to Say It after that, though I also think there was no doubt he was about to when the sun went out.
I have no doubt. The only other thing he might have told her was to not wait for him so that she wouldn't wind up like Sarah Jane. But I believe first and foremost that he was going to say ILY.
I haven't heard the soundtrack. I'll look out for those songs.
Song For Ten
Well I woke up today ( ... )
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