How it usually goes.

[maradydd]

I've made my own contributions to the #IAskedPolitely discussion, which probably got lost in the shuffle. But those are my unusual stories. Here are twothree real-life stories of what conflict resolution, in those kinds of scenarios, usually looks like for me.

I'm among a small group of hacker friends, and the subject of underrepresentation of

Comments

[anaisdjuna]

What do you mean by "What is it that's so different for me?"

Re: Scenario #1... Grrrrr

Re: Scenario #2... Love the way you roll. I may have to keep that one on tap.

I totally feel your friend on the honesty. I'd much rather have something that's given than taken.

[maradydd]

On scenario #1, I don't blame the person. I don't know how many transfolk they'd interacted with at that point or whether they were even aware how contentious the question they were asking was. So I figured the thing to do was to make it clear that I, at least, didn't consider it up for debate. I was firm, but otherwise unemotional about it (if "firm" even counts as an emotion) ... and the person changed their opinion immediately.

This is just the usual course of events for me. When something isn't okay, I try to make clear upfront what isn't okay and why ... and by and large, people tend to respond in the direction of helping me make it okay. I don't know why I get this sort of reaction so consistently, but it's a good reaction, a useful reaction, and maybe if I can figure out why it happens, other people can try to elicit that sort of reaction too and see how well that works. (And if not, figure out why.)

Edit: Gonna add another story in a slightly different problem domain, to illustrate.

[maradydd]

Yeah, the bystander effect is another one of those problems I've been thinking about lately. I'm not immune to it, either -- a social-engineer friend demonstrated that handily to me at a con in Berlin a while back, calling me out to break up a disorganized group of people that were clogging the entrance to a room. ("Hey Meredith, there's plenty of room in there, go on in." *everyone follows*) I think I weirded him out a bit later when I ran into him and said "hey, nice job breaking the bystander effect." Spergs aren't supposed to notice that kind of thing.

[q_pheevr]

How do you get a bunch of Canadians out of a swimming pool?

[maradydd]

How?

[00goddess]

I suspect that the great deal of social power you have in that community has a lot to do with it, Meredith. The person in interaction #1 might not have been so agreeable had the declaration that your friend "counts" as a woman come from someone with less social power. You are well-known and respected, which gives you some privilege that you may be overlooking.

Interaction #2: I've been on both sides of interactions like that, and sometimes they go well, and sometimes they don't. It isn't a given that they will go well in any community, including the hacker community.

[maradydd]

Your interpretation makes sense, though let me add a little additional background and see what you think. Interaction #1 took place in 2010. I'd given a couple of talks, but wasn't well known (we met Sergey in May of that year, langsec hadn't really taken off yet). The person in interaction #1 was at the time, and still is, far more widely known; we're (now) about equally respected but for vastly different things. This was also the second time I'd met that person; about all we knew of each other at the time were one another's names.

So, there was certainly a power disparity, but it was definitely in the other direction. Perhaps at that point I had more social power than I thought I did (it wouldn't be the first time), and the person decided that challenging my assertion would be too much of a risk. Or, like I said to anaisdjuna above, maybe I actually changed their mind. I've become much closer friends with this person since then, and haven't heard them say a single even remotely transphobic thing since. Obviously I don't know what happens

[00goddess]

I don't think that a disparity has to exist for someone to respect you, or for the respect you have socially to have an effect, you know? Even someone who you perceive as having more social power than you have, is aware of the social power you have and in addition to that might respect you on a personal level.

I also think that you generally do underestimate how charismatic you are :) You have a very commanding personal presence, and when you speak definitely about something, your attitude kind of compels agreement.

[barbarienne]

when you speak definitely about something, your attitude kind of compels agreement

-->This is a concept I was trying to work into my reply below, but it was getting really long...

Most people, regardless of gender, respond favorably to someone speaking with confidence and authority. We really are just all hairless apes, here.

I suspect that your (Meredith's) failure to learn to be a "good little girl" got you off to an early start at being someone who speaks plainly and confidently. I'm certain that's a privilege I enjoy.

[darthzeth]

People tend to find what they're looking for, and you're not looking to get offended.

[maradydd]

Well, I mean, it's like -- in situation #1 above, I was offended. $NAME identifies as a woman, I think of her that way, why split hairs about it? It's the irritation of "we've already been over this," even though "we" really just means "I".

I guess maybe part of it is, yeah the person said something offensive, but the issue at hand is that, not my feelings about it. I objected to the assertion, the assertion was withdrawn, there's nothing to feel upset about anymore other than a lingering dissatisfaction with the fact that I'll probably have to have that conversation a few more times before I'm dead.

[darthzeth]

Exactly. If you're not looking to get offended, you can still be offended, but that's a situation to be resolved. Maybe that's not as good as not being offended in the first place, but you do your best to correct it and move on.

If you are looking to be offended, then when someone is offensive you treat it like an opportunity to exploit, not a problem to be remedied. You'll tend to hold on to it, rather than try to fix it and let it go.

[00goddess]

This is a very glib way to dismiss any responsibility for being offensive.

[cnoocy]

One common thread in these is that they are all interactions with people you knew before the interaction happened. Maybe you have good instincts for picking friends?