Good for these women taking steps to defend themselves. The crazy part of this article are the stats cited from the Egyptian Centre for Women's Rights
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Those are staggering statistics, but are not entirely unsurprising. I wouldn't call it the same as the harrassment that these women have faced but when I was 18 and traveling in Egypt with my parents, I constant had men cat-calling me. At one point, a man grabbed my wrist and tried to remove my sunglasses, saying "let me see your eyes, your eyes like the heavens". Let me tell you, I found it pretty frightening. Luckily, my sister saw it happening and drove him off. I hear they're scared of red heads. ;-)
Look even in a place where people expect to be hit on/flirted with such as a club or party or whatever there are still appropriate forms of behavior.
I agree. I also laugh bitterly, because there's a reason I dance very elbow-y at clubs. (Went to a gay club once junior year, *still* got hit on by Greasy McSkeeze who would not take a hint.*) Even if a person is acting approachable or knows you socially (a big one that's come up for me at cons/LARPs/the occasional boffer practice with fucking clueless freshmen) he or she still has personal space. Learn to read social cues; if you *can't* learn to read social cues, please stay in your parents' basement and inflict your presence only on, I don't know, explicit Blood Elf fanart or something. HATE.
*Greasy McSkeeze Who Would Not Take a Hint sounds like some demented Dr. Seuss character. Or maybe someone from Shel Silverstein.
a) There is a woman who teaches kendo at a dojo in downtown providence. Honestly, just watching her teaching it was one of the most awe-inspiring things I've ever seen.
b) The issue of harassment in the military is a big one. Our country's sexual hangups seem to be multiplied a thousand-fold due to the rigid 'discipline' structures combined with the expected ostracism of anyone who undermines - or perhaps just points the injustices in - the social order.
c) My roommates are not comfortable with most clubs in DC because of the grabby-ness. Even if one out of a hundred (guys) thinks it's ok to go around grabbing, you're still basically going to be grabbed constantly. That said, I don't know that you can pass much judgment on people who were brought up to believe that sort of behavior is socially correct any more than you can pass judgment on people who see it and don't do anything, or tacitly encourage it. It's not hard to come to the conclusion, in our society - or apparently, others - that you do want to keep swinging for the
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As far as c goes, I sort of agree and sort of don't. I think many cultures--including ours--need to come down a *lot* more harshly on unwanted advances. (Our culture, in particular, needs to stop casting the sort of desperate stalky behavior typical of a leg-humping shi tzu as "romantic", and to stop casting needy entitlement bitches as "Nice Guys", my God, q.v. relevant XKCD comic.) However, since there are examples of people who stand up to their cultural standards and say "hey, this is wrong," I do fault people who cheerfully go along with the wrongness because it's to their advantage, even if it does work sometimes. Spamming works too, and most people agree that spammers are slime.
I am, admittedly, a world of cranky where this is concerned.
While in general I agree with all that, I also think it's an impractical stance from a diplomatic/negotiation point of view. 99.9% of the people I know are basically insecure. I can think of, maybe, two people who I'd be confident are always acting out of a place of confidence rather than a mix of desperate wants and crippling fears. Assuming that holds for the general populace, I don't see it as reasonable to expect your average male to give up all control in social situations
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Well, it's worth keeping in mind that I, as usual, am coming at this less from a diplomatic/negotiation point of view as from a...reaction/penalty point of view? I'm not really interested in sensitively enlightening guys who grab me in clubs, poke me in the head when I'm not paying sufficient attention to THEMOMG, or come up and try to grind with me after I've repeatedly moved away. If they're that big a bundle of neurosis and suck, they've pretty much failed beyond any interest I have in dealing with them
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I really don't find the numbers hard to believe. Find me a healthy American woman over age 16 who has never been catcalled, groped, or followed, and I will find you one that has never met any males outside her family or has grown up in a convent. Or maybe she has more than the usual number of noses or something.
And GRRR, men who blame the women for their poor behavior! I mean, do they really want women to stop looking pretty, or even remotely presentable?
This is not the least bit surprising when you consider that even fairly moderate strains of Islam say "men cannot be expected to control themselves if they see an attractive woman". And because the men are the ones in control, this becomes "cover the women and blame the victims"... rather than the logical solution if that were actually true, which would be to lock the men up. In many countries in that region, women can be arrested for not being covered head to toe, men can outright rape women and face no penalties if they claim she was insufficiently covered - and the women can get arrested, beaten, even killed for having been raped. Meanwhile the men aren't allowed to talk to women socially, so the more desperate go out and harrass women just to get laid (I read an article a few years ago about how young men in some of these countries drive around with their cell numbers in the windows and have even driven women off the roads on occasion trying to find one who will talk to them... but if the woman DOES call them? she can be KILLED
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I agree. I also laugh bitterly, because there's a reason I dance very elbow-y at clubs. (Went to a gay club once junior year, *still* got hit on by Greasy McSkeeze who would not take a hint.*) Even if a person is acting approachable or knows you socially (a big one that's come up for me at cons/LARPs/the occasional boffer practice with fucking clueless freshmen) he or she still has personal space. Learn to read social cues; if you *can't* learn to read social cues, please stay in your parents' basement and inflict your presence only on, I don't know, explicit Blood Elf fanart or something. HATE.
*Greasy McSkeeze Who Would Not Take a Hint sounds like some demented Dr. Seuss character. Or maybe someone from Shel Silverstein.
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Nuh-uh. Edward Gorey
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b) The issue of harassment in the military is a big one. Our country's sexual hangups seem to be multiplied a thousand-fold due to the rigid 'discipline' structures combined with the expected ostracism of anyone who undermines - or perhaps just points the injustices in - the social order.
c) My roommates are not comfortable with most clubs in DC because of the grabby-ness. Even if one out of a hundred (guys) thinks it's ok to go around grabbing, you're still basically going to be grabbed constantly. That said, I don't know that you can pass much judgment on people who were brought up to believe that sort of behavior is socially correct any more than you can pass judgment on people who see it and don't do anything, or tacitly encourage it. It's not hard to come to the conclusion, in our society - or apparently, others - that you do want to keep swinging for the ( ... )
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I am, admittedly, a world of cranky where this is concerned.
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And GRRR, men who blame the women for their poor behavior! I mean, do they really want women to stop looking pretty, or even remotely presentable?
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