Public entry: Mind blowing Christology

[melyndie]

Christ did not ultimately die for you. Christ died for God. When I heard that for the first time this week, my whole paradigm went for a wild ride.

Christ died for God, and God was satisfied with Christ

Comments

[pansyprincess]

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: I can't tell you how nice it is to read a post like this, stating things that I believe but that most other people don't! It's SO encouraging! :)

[melyndie]

I don't see how most people can't believe that. I can understand how they didn't see it before (I didn't), but it's rather obvious when you think about it (which I'm glad I finally did).

[pansyprincess]

I don't see how, either! But so many people seem to have this idea that God was just longing to have fellowship with man, and he couldn't stand the idea of being separated from us, so he had to send Jesus down to die for us. That's simply not Scriptural! God doesn't need us--he chose to save us because it pleased and glorified him!

There is so much mushy sentimentalism going around today, just like in that last song you copied in your post (not the Camp one, the other).

[melyndie]

That is so, so egocentric! The world does not revolve around us. :-| We are the pinnacle of God's creation, but above us there is God.

That song I quoted, Michael W. Smith's, is unfortunately very popular.

[jennymae]

Warning, this is going to be a long post. :-)

Isn't it amazing (and also embarrassing) how far we can go without thinking about the lyrics to the songs we sing? I agree with you abut "Above All" because it wasn't until about two years ago that someone pointed out to me why we don't sing that song at church and why its lyrics are incorrect. I have to admit that I liked the song (I still love the tune). What's even more amazing is that I can go for so long just singing the words and not thinking about them or what they mean! It's rather disconcerting. :-P

There's another song that is incorrect (and one that I have sung incorrectly for years): "Lord I Lift Your Name on High." The song says, You came from heaven to earth, to show the way..., which is incorrect because Jesus didn't come to "show" the way, he came to "BE" the way. (So we change "show" to "be" when we sing it.) Anyway, that's yet another example of how I don't, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, pay close attention to the theology that's in the words. Songs can be

[melyndie]

Your comment was only 1/3rd the length of my post, so it's not long. ;-) I bet this comment of mine is going to be lengthy-ish, though!

Yeah, I totally know what you mean. I don't think about song lyrics that much although I know I should. I think we can get ideas and our worldview from them without realizing it.

I never thought of "Lord I Life Yor Name on High" before! Wow. I haven't sung that in years (since we went to CBC), but I'd never really thought about it before. Yeah, showing the way and being the way is surely different. :-P

can be so powerful and can have some of our best doctrine in it. Yeah, that's why hymns and Christmas carols are so good--they're just full of doctrine

[jennymae]

Hey, doesn't Steve Camp go to your church? Or used to be the music pastor or something?

Um, yeah, he used be pastor of something...maybe singles? I dunno, anyway, he's not there anymore, he's back in TN (or wherever he was originally from) 'cause they weren't able to sell their house or something.

I can check in the Bookshack tomorrow (if I remember! :-D) to see if they have "Mercy in the Wilderness." The words will probably be in the CD cover thingy...but do you want the entire CD if they have it? Otherwise, I don't think I can really help you with the words... Oh wait, Mom can prolly ask someone in the Music Dept. If you want her to ask, let me know. :-) Or if you want me to look for the CD, let me know. :-)

About the user icons...sure, I'll take some! :-) You know what I like (prolly better than I do! ;-)), so whatever sounds good to me. (Btw, this can wait until after finals. :-))

[melyndie]

Thanks for offering to check at the Bookshack for me! Yeah, it wouldn't be much of a help unless I purchased the CD, though, which I don't really want to do for just one song. And I don't want your mom to go through the trouble of asking someone in the music dept. for the lyrics, so I believe I shall be patient and ask my professor when he isn't so busy. Thanks for offering to help, though!

Check your email for icons. :-D

[ballettalia]

I can see your point....and I agree that much of the mushy "theology" that people get today is unbalanced and man-centered. However, I think that while we need to realize God does all things for His glory, you can easily let the pendulum swing TOO far and you have done that in your post, at least the way I read it.

We are almost always taught that Christ died for us on the cross, that this was his primary purpose in dying. But his purpose lay much higher. We are only saved so that God's glory might be greater. Christ died for us so that we might be saved so that God may be glorified. Christ died for God. In a way this is true, yes, but everything is ultimately done for God's glory. That does not negate that Christ also died for US...you can't just toss aside the basic Rom. 5:8 and John 3:16. Those show the purpose Christ died

[melyndie]

We don't exactly agree too often, do we, dear? ;-) As iron sharpens iron...

I think we are actually agreeing, though, and that I just wasn't as clear as I could have been in saying what I did. I had trouble with the wording of this sentence: We are almost always taught that Christ died for us on the cross, that this was his primary purpose in dying. I didn't mean to say that Christ didn't die for us. What I meant was that he didn't die first and foremost for us. His first and foremost plan was to die so that God might be glorified. I know you agree with that. And just that was my point.

Christ definitely died for us. There wouldn't have been a purpose for Christ to die unless he was redeeming someone. But he wouldn't be redeeming anyone unless God would be glorified.

As for the line about the rose trampled, I don't think either of us know enough about it, more than what I already shared, to really argue more either way about it. And I haven't seen the Passion, so we're at a stalemate there also. ;-)

[ballettalia]

We don't exactly agree too often, do we, dear? ;-)hehe, no. But it's not intentional! You know I don't enjoy disagreeing--but discussion is good. :-) And I think we aren't in as much disagreement as it appears on first look...I guess for me I agree with what you said above--of course Christ died for us and God was ultimately glorified....I guess I just don't...see why focusing on one at the expense of the other...keeps the balance. Anyway, I'm not going to dwell there

[melyndie]

I guess I just don't...see why focusing on one at the expense of the other...keeps the balance.

Well, making everything in my life glorifying to God is a good side to stress. ;-) But seriously, I'm just pointing out the opposite side of the issue that most people don't talk about to balance out ALL the me-centered cross messages out there. Once I've made my point, I'll live in the happy middle, yes. Christ died for God, and Christ died for me (in that order).

You haven't seen the Passion? Wow. :-) Maybe you posted about that and i didn't see it...is there a reason why? I mean, I'm assuming there is..:-)

How funny that Christians are expected to see this movie and that we must have a reason for not seeing it. ;-) Yeah, I did post about it, but quite a while back (when it came out). I won't go looking for it--too hard. ;-) Anyway, I did have a reason for not seeing it, which is the reason I have for not seeing a lot of movies with violence, especially torture in them: it really bothers me to see that kind of stuff in movies. I don't