Sam/Dean in 9x13 (spoilers)...Contextualizing the brothers' current issues

[morganlucas41]

So these are my somewhat disjointed thoughts on the humdinger of a Sam/Dean closing conversation in 913, and my attempts to contextualize it in terms of the boys' overall characterization. I'm just trying to make sense of it all and this is what I've come up with, though it's far from conclusive. SPOILERS through 913 but none beyond that.

Comments

[brightly_lit]

I agree that the writing on Show right now is wildly inconsistent--it's very frustrating both for viewing and for trying to write fic!!

I actually really like what they're exploring with the boys because it's literally like watching my own relationship(s) play out on national t.v. (my significant other agrees, even!), which is a pretty freaky experience, but undeniably riveting. Still, it feels like there's a TON of stuff that's meant to be subtextual but never gets clearer than subliminal, which is making it really hard for people to even understand what the writers are trying to say with the show at this point, argh!

I liked your summation of all the inconsistencies throughout all of the seasons; they're always niggling at me, so it was nice to see them all delineated so plainly. Here's hoping it's all headed somewhere good--or at least somewhere that makes some sense!

[morganlucas41]

Yeah. I keep hoping the writers are actually GOING somewhere with all of this, because as it is right now it's an inconsistent mess. But we'll see.

I think that when you have a show that's been on for nine years, there are going to be some inconsistencies. But I think that in the case of SPN, Kripke had a story he wanted to tell in five seasons, and he told it. Then you had other people come in and...try to continue that, with varying success.

I really think Sam and Dean were in the perfect place in 522. I wouldn't want the show to end with Sam dead, of course, but in terms of their relationship, it was perfect at that point. And since that time, I don't know what's going on with it. So I'm hoping that we finally get some resolution, and some character development that won't disappear again.

[tabaqui]

I agree with almost 100 percent of what you say here. They are both so fucked up (PTSD, anyone?) and laden with guilt and shame and anger and esteem issues and love life issues

[morganlucas41]

Dean's year with Lisa was different than Sam's with Amelia, I agree. But for me, I'm still not really clear on why Sam didn't look for Dean after Purgatory. That always seemed unexplained to me in S8. Maybe, now that Sam's laid down the gauntlet (by saying he wouldn't do the same thing as Dean in 901), maybe we'll get some explanation of that

[juppschmitz]

[tarynelliott]

Ding! Ding!
Gadreel saying that line is a huge difference. It's close enough to what Dean would say that Sam believed it, but def not Dean. That entire scene in Sam's head was his own imaginings w a healthy dose of Gadreel coming into his dream/consciousness IMHO. My clue was how diff Death was.

[percysowner]

I don’t know why Sam would include Cas in that list, when other statements he’s made would indicate that he also perceives Cas as family. But the Benny thing is totally consistent with Sam’s behavior in S8.Sam has really never been given the opportunity to deal with the things Cas has done to him. Cas did spend season four encouraging Dean to turn against Sam. Cas didn't know the plan was to start the Apocalypse, but he still was part of estranging Sam and Dean. Cas also "rescued" Sam's body from the Cage and inadvertently left his soul. What was worse is that he never made any attempt to contact Sam even when Soulless!Sam called to him and ask for an explanation as to what had happened. However, Cas came the second Dean called. Then Cas broke Sam's wall and left Sam hallucinating and broken. So Sam has a lot of reasons to resent the fact that Dean to this day trusts Cas. But I don't think Sam would have said anything if Dean had kept bringing up Sam being soulless as something Sam should repent for. Or even when he qualifies it by

[morganlucas41]

I think the worst thing Cas did to Sam, and to the brothers personally, was breaking Sam's wall. I also think that he repaired Sam's wall by taking the hallucinations on himself, and that he's redeemed himself for his actions.

Sam and Cas do have a conversation in 7.21 where they discuss what Cas did, and the affect that had on Sam - Sam acknowledges that Cas was always trying to help.

I don't think anyone thinks that Sam being soulless was intentional on Sam or Cas's part. It has always bothered me that Dean included that in the list of things Sam needed to atone for - because it wasn't at all his fault. But Dean says that exactly once. He does not continually blame Sam for Cas's actions.

Sam and Dean also have a conversation in 822, I think, where Sam says Dean should take it easy on Cas, because he's Cas. It indicates that Sam trusts him and thinks Dean should, too.

Dean trusts Gadreel over Sam's decision to move onDean had NO WAY of knowing that Sam had decided to "move on." All he knew was that was Sam was dying and he did

[percysowner]

Gadreel showed Dean the conversation that Sam had with Death where he said he was ready to go if Death could promise no one would bring him back and he wouldn't hurt anyone. So yes, Dean knew Sam was ready to die and trusted that an angel possessing Sam was better than Sam finding the peace he was ready to have.

[morganlucas41]

Dean decided that having Sam alive was worth anything. He didn't want to let an angel possess him, but chose that for Sam because he thought Sam being alive was the most important thing. They are now dealing with the consequences of that action.