Cards to Playext_229051September 4 2011, 05:47:14 UTC
You are not limited in the number of cards you get to play.
Yes, do play the Relatives card.
But what about the frum Jewish judges on the benches? How about Hon. Martin Ritholtz, who decided the Borenstein v. Simonson 8 Misc. 3d 481, 797 N.Y.S.2d 818 [www.nycourts.gov/reporter/3dseries/2005/2005_25135.htm ].
Judge Ritholtz wears his kippah when he sits on the bench.
[And in New York, the "Supreme Court" is just a name for the local County trial court of general jurisdiction, analogous to the Common Pleas courts in Ohio. But your principal probably doesn't know that, so you can tell her that New York Supreme Court Justice Martin Ritholtz upheld halacha from the bench. Is he also corrupt?].
And what about the late Justice Michael Musmanno, a devout Catholic who sat on the Pennsylvania Supreme Court after he served as a judge at the Nuremburg Trials? Maybe he was also corrupt for convicting those Nazi war criminals?
What about parents of public school kids? They can't complain either, right? Since they could always move or put their kids in private schools. And the people in private schools can't complain since they can always take their kids out and put them in public school. So I guess, according to this logic, no one can ever complain about any school system ever. And moreover, they can't complain about any teacher in any school ever.
That sounds like a winning combo.
If I understood you incorrectly, please accept my apologies and explain when, in America, a parent could complain about a school or a teacher.
Nonsense! I've complained loud and long in both private and public schools and brought about change to the benefit of my kids. It's difficult to understand why you would subject your children to this den of ignorance and bigotry.
no advice, but a question
anonymous
September 4 2011, 06:01:23 UTC
Can you pray tell me - since you know this teacher personally - how this "all judges are corrupt" primitive message was supposed to somehow impart a message that will foster good feelings about Yidishkeit in the students? Also, what statement of Chazal prompted this teacher to make such a pronouncement? As to the Reform and Conservative, there is a VAST difference in calling THEM not Jewish and calling their PRACTICE not Jewish. I don't believe that an Orthodox school has to be apologetic about voicing it's refusal to recognize those as legitimate expressions of Judaism, your imaginary "reform relatives" notwithstanding. SO, if the teacher ACTUALLY claimed THEY are not Jewish, you have something to take to the principal, if she attacked their practice, and you have a problem with that, I predict you will not get an understanding reception.
Re: no advice, but a questiononionsoupmixSeptember 4 2011, 12:14:18 UTC
1. I don't know this teacher personally, not sure what I wrote that led you to that conclusion...
2. That said, from what I understood, the message is ashreinu mah tov chelkeinu.
3. I do have reform relatives
4. If an orthodox school won't accept reform and conservative movements as legitimate Judaic streams, fine let them not accept these practices. Who cares? Maybe the orthodox school also accepts only one kind of roofing contractor. Who cares? I don't understand why the hostility needs to be taught. Welcome to your first day of school kinderlach. Let's remember that we are the true Jews and everyone else is a phony.
Re: no advice, but a question
anonymous
September 4 2011, 19:35:50 UTC
1. I don't know this teacher personally, not sure what I wrote that led you to that conclusion... I meant to write. "I would assume you know this teacher personally". My bad.
2. That said, from what I understood, the message is ashreinu mah tov chelkeinu. "What a pathetic way to impart this message!
3. I do have reform relatives In this case, your conversation with the principal should be easier.
4. If an orthodox school won't accept reform and conservative movements as legitimate Judaic streams, fine let them not accept these practices. Who cares? Maybe the orthodox school also accepts only one kind of roofing contractor. Who cares? I don't understand why the hostility needs to be taught. Welcome to your first day of school kinderlach. Let's remember that we are the true Jews and everyone else is a phony.Hostility shouldn't be taught. "we are true Jews" shouldn't be the message (or internal belief, for that matter). However, your comparison with a roofing contractor is silly, this isn't a vocational construction school, I assume
( ... )
Re: no advice, but a questiononionsoupmixSeptember 4 2011, 20:23:56 UTC
AT SOME POINT (even if it isn't the first day of school), the question of how Halacha views reform and conservative practice is BOUND to come up in school and though, again, the individual reform and conservative Jews (those that are, that is) should never be called 'not really Jewish', the orthodox view of those movements is a legitimate 'hashkofo' (hate the word) issue that should be addressed
it can be addressed more cerebrally and less emotionally. We, the orthodox community, don't accept reform and conservative movements as authentic for the following reasons. Or, we the orthodox have historically rejected offshoot movements because...
It doesn't have to be a "nyah, nyah, we are better than them, we are smarter than them, they are so lost and confused." I think 9th graders deserve better than that.
The Jewish legal system is powerful and amazing but is lacking some very important things which lacking those things creates a nightmare. It has also something beyond any other legal system it has holiness and a connection with the Divine. But there are a few things that it lacks as Maimonides saw long ago
( ... )
The most obvious problem with halakha as an interpersonal legal system (rather than as the personal moral system that has existed throughout most of history) is that it is unenforceable. In most circumstances two adult male Jewish witnesses of good standing are required to testify to a violation committed by a Jew and the perp must be cautioned against committing the crime in advance. Good luck implementing that scheme in real life. A criminal with any common sense is confronted by no law whatsoever.
The second most obvious problem is that halakha grants tremendous power to those who are freeborn Jewish males at the expense of slaves, non-Jews, and women. None of these groups can ordinarily provide testimony and a non-Jew can be put to death on a mere accusation by a Jew.
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Yes, do play the Relatives card.
But what about the frum Jewish judges on the benches? How about Hon. Martin Ritholtz, who decided the Borenstein v. Simonson 8 Misc. 3d 481, 797 N.Y.S.2d 818 [www.nycourts.gov/reporter/3dseries/2005/2005_25135.htm ].
Judge Ritholtz wears his kippah when he sits on the bench.
[And in New York, the "Supreme Court" is just a name for the local County trial court of general jurisdiction, analogous to the Common Pleas courts in Ohio. But your principal probably doesn't know that, so you can tell her that New York Supreme Court Justice Martin Ritholtz upheld halacha from the bench. Is he also corrupt?].
And what about the late Justice Michael Musmanno, a devout Catholic who sat on the Pennsylvania Supreme Court after he served as a judge at the Nuremburg Trials? Maybe he was also corrupt for convicting those Nazi war criminals?
You've got lots of cards to play!
Good luck!!
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
What about parents of public school kids? They can't complain either, right? Since they could always move or put their kids in private schools. And the people in private schools can't complain since they can always take their kids out and put them in public school. So I guess, according to this logic, no one can ever complain about any school system ever. And moreover, they can't complain about any teacher in any school ever.
That sounds like a winning combo.
If I understood you incorrectly, please accept my apologies and explain when, in America, a parent could complain about a school or a teacher.
Reply
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
As to the Reform and Conservative, there is a VAST difference in calling THEM not Jewish and calling their PRACTICE not Jewish. I don't believe that an Orthodox school has to be apologetic about voicing it's refusal to recognize those as legitimate expressions of Judaism, your imaginary "reform relatives" notwithstanding. SO, if the teacher ACTUALLY claimed THEY are not Jewish, you have something to take to the principal, if she attacked their practice, and you have a problem with that, I predict you will not get an understanding reception.
-cfkaMP
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2. That said, from what I understood, the message is ashreinu mah tov chelkeinu.
3. I do have reform relatives
4. If an orthodox school won't accept reform and conservative movements as legitimate Judaic streams, fine let them not accept these practices. Who cares? Maybe the orthodox school also accepts only one kind of roofing contractor. Who cares? I don't understand why the hostility needs to be taught. Welcome to your first day of school kinderlach. Let's remember that we are the true Jews and everyone else is a phony.
Reply
I meant to write. "I would assume you know this teacher personally". My bad.
2. That said, from what I understood, the message is ashreinu mah tov chelkeinu.
"What a pathetic way to impart this message!
3. I do have reform relatives
In this case, your conversation with the principal should be easier.
4. If an orthodox school won't accept reform and conservative movements as legitimate Judaic streams, fine let them not accept these practices. Who cares? Maybe the orthodox school also accepts only one kind of roofing contractor. Who cares? I don't understand why the hostility needs to be taught. Welcome to your first day of school kinderlach. Let's remember that we are the true Jews and everyone else is a phony.Hostility shouldn't be taught. "we are true Jews" shouldn't be the message (or internal belief, for that matter). However, your comparison with a roofing contractor is silly, this isn't a vocational construction school, I assume ( ... )
Reply
it can be addressed more cerebrally and less emotionally. We, the orthodox community, don't accept reform and conservative movements as authentic for the following reasons. Or, we the orthodox have historically rejected offshoot movements because...
It doesn't have to be a "nyah, nyah, we are better than them, we are smarter than them, they are so lost and confused." I think 9th graders deserve better than that.
Reply
Reply
The second most obvious problem is that halakha grants tremendous power to those who are freeborn Jewish males at the expense of slaves, non-Jews, and women. None of these groups can ordinarily provide testimony and a non-Jew can be put to death on a mere accusation by a Jew.
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