Comments | onionsoupmix: I canceled the sleepover

onionsoupmix

I canceled the sleepover

Oct 15, 2011 23:42

My 8 year old was going to have a sleepover for her birthday party. It was a big deal, with lots of planning and excitement. Making cupcakes, seeing a movie, getting their nails done, etc.

We invited a few kids from the neighborhood, one of them was our secular ( possibly not Jewish?) next door neighbor's kid, a cute second grader.

Today, one of my ( Read more... )

gentiles, family, chinuch, morality, community

Comments 83

don't understand anonymous October 16 2011, 04:16:31 UTC

I don't get it. Why'd you punish your kid for something that someone else did?

Re: don't understand onionsoupmix October 16 2011, 04:18:19 UTC

she went along with it.

Re: don't understand anonymous October 16 2011, 04:27:01 UTC

Hmmm... well, I can see why you'd want her to also understand how wrong that was, but it does seem a bit severe. After all, to expect an 8 year old to take a moral stand on something and have to stand up to her friend...? Sounds like you've set a really high bar there.

Re: don't understand hamaskil October 16 2011, 05:13:17 UTC

Sometimes you don't want to humiliate a person by telling her she's wrong when everybody else is present. And chances are she'll accept it better in privacy vs. admitting her wrongs in presence of everybody else.

Thread 5

i wonder anonymous October 16 2011, 05:03:17 UTC

I'm sure your daughter understands why you cancelled it, but I wonder if it might actually reinforce the idea in the friends mind that she was right in thinking that one can't play with goyim.

hamaskil October 16 2011, 05:10:05 UTC

Might be a little bit too harsh, in my opinion... After all, this is what they're taught in school.

Tamei hamaskil October 16 2011, 05:21:45 UTC

Your daughter told you about the hurtful exchange. This means she was troubled by it and wanted validation from you. It would have been wise to strengthen her in standing by her friend. Having courage to set rather than follow trends is a skill to be nurtured.

Re: Tamei onionsoupmix October 16 2011, 05:37:37 UTC

No, I heard about this from my younger daughter who was upset that the ostracized child went home crying and now wouldn't play with my younger kid either.

Re: Tamei hamaskil October 16 2011, 05:55:16 UTC

Were there any additional witnesses ? Was she sworn in ? Did you allow the other girls to testify ? :)

Thread 8

anonymous October 16 2011, 05:28:50 UTC

I did the 8 yr old sleepover thing last year. You've just avoided the 11 p.m. girl in tears begging to call her mom to pick her up, followed by another girl begging to call her mom at 2 a.m.

OTOH, I'm going to ask a really heavy question here: Were you punishing your dd for something that you have ever done yourself? Ie. gone along with something morally questionable due to peer pressure/fear of taking a public stand? If so, was any part of your reaction due to anger at yourself?

JRKmommy

onionsoupmix October 16 2011, 05:36:44 UTC

Well, yes, to some extent I remember the whole don't-be-friends-with-her-or-else-I-won't-be-friends-with-you thing that is part of every girl's elementary and junior high school experience. But this wasn't just simple exclusion, that I would not have cancelled a party for. This seemed to me to be much more serious, on par with calling a black child the N word or the like.

mrn613 October 16 2011, 14:57:47 UTC

you have not answered the question: why would some people not consider the child Jewish? Conservative conversion or non-compliance with the terms of an Orthodox conversion? If the child is really not-Jewish and the neighbor girl said something ignorant (everything a gentile touches is tamei) vs. something offensive (she is some dumb goy) I don't see why you are so upset. You could have used this a teaching opportunity for all the girls and instead you have canceled an opportunity for the girls to interact.

onionsoupmix October 16 2011, 23:28:28 UTC

It wasn't said out of ignorance, it was said out of meanness. They didn't want to play with the girl and made this up as an excuse.

I don't know if the kid is Jewish. The neighborhood considers her not Jewish but the father mentioned something to my husband a few years back that made my husband think they were Jews just unaffiliated.

I don't see that it's any of my business or that it makes a difference to the punishment.

Thread 11

Rabbi Yehudah anonymous October 16 2011, 08:54:41 UTC

Marcus Aurelius had a great friend in Rabbi Yehudah. Marcus Aurelius was highly admired by Rabbi Yehudah, and their friendship was one of mutual respect. Look it up if any of you have doubts about whether friendship with a gentile needs to be so bigoted.

Respect. Respect. Respect. They are human beings. Created in the image of G-d like we are. We have extra obligations - and when we behave this way we are performing a chilul hashem - showing that we are commoners, not the royalty we pretend to be.

I stress again - this is not finished. This girl deserves a heartfelt apology and all the parents should take this as an opportunity to teach their daughters the severity with which such behavior is taken in OUR TRADITION.