"Organic" and "natural" do not equal "better"

[phoenixprime]

Let me start this out by saying that I firmly believe that humans have a responsibility to live in harmony with our planet. We have a responsibility as caretakers of this planet we call home, and we've done a poor job so far of living up to that responsibility

Comments

new! improved!

[nidea]

I read recently that most of the "badges" and awards on "natural" products are totally made up. Can't find the quote right now, sorry!

Re: new! improved!

[phoenixprime]

*grin* No problem!

[liminalia]

Thank you. I had much the same argument with someone on facebook today who was asserting that agrarian humans lived "in a symbiotic relationship with Nature" and that we should all reject capitalism and go back to that. I pointed out that current archaeology suggests all human societies have substantially altered the environment, usually to the detriment of at least some other species. I wondered where she was going to get her medicines if she tried to live entirely off the land without capitalism. I mean, some meds occur in nature, yes, but certainly not all.

[phoenixprime]

*grin* You're going to get me going on the "no vaccine" movement with that reply. While we over-vaccinate in certain situations, other vaccinations have had huge public health benefits - and continue to do so. Parents who refuse to vaccinate their children are benefiting from everyone else's vaccinated kids, and it drives me nuts that they don't see that.

[mimesis]

"herd immunity" is the term i've run across for it in the english news sources. badscience.net has been hacking away at the anti-vax progenitors for a while now. good source for lay readers!

[urangme]

Medicine in most of the world is not a technology conversation. Traditional Chinese Medicine would function reasonably well in her agrarian model depending on the growing season/location.

If you consider vaccines medicine, then I'd have to agree with you, I tend to view them as highly effective preventative precautions rather than medicine.

[urangme]

Okay, I follow you on natural, but I'm curious as to your point about organic.

Other than local/non-local considerations, I can't think of any way in which organic farmed products are going to be "harder" on the environment than current non-organic farming practice.

* Reduced Pesticide
* Reduced Yield
* Reduced Fertilizer

Prolonged/improved soil treatment, improved air and water quality are all likely outcomes of true organic farming practices. (Not that everything with an organic label on it is actually farmed in a harmonious/healthy way)

Sorry to argue with a rant...I'm not the brightest spoon in the drawer some days.

[phoenixprime]

You aren't arguing. You're discussing. This is an important difference to me.

There are many cases where organically farmed products are going to be easier on the environment. But the farming methods aren't the only considerations. How far is the produce shipped? What's the energy impact of shipping and storage, compared, for example, to locally grown produce? There are a number of situations where locally grown conventional produce has a lower carbon footprint than non-local organic produce.

Living in harmony with the planet and with each other is more than just farming practices. The above is only one example.

[urangme]

I agree on the local, I'd say our personal choice is "55% organic, 40% local, 5% shit that want come hell or high water". Means most of what we eat is local, as vegetarians in California, its pretty easy to eat local, organic and healthy.

The part that really gets me is the folks who are righteous about how healthy they eat, how good they are to the planet, etc etc etc...and never consider how blessed they are to have the money to make that choice. I grew up dumpster diving with my family at one point...yeah! for making good choices, but you're blessed when you can, many folks, hell, most folks the world over are still just trying to make sure everyone in the hut gets fed.

[phoenixprime]

This is part of the reason I talk about things like economic and socio-political ecosystems needing to be part of the discussion as well.

[phoenixprime]

I'm not supposed to take asprin. So I always love it when people try to convince me that white willow bark will help me with headaches and I should be taking it... :-)

I just get tired of the "natural" is "better" discussion.

[urangme]

Lightning is natural...I'll still take an overdose of morphine as an exit strategy over a lightning storm any day of the week.

[marduk_lok]

I get a kick out of students telling me that something is "all natural." Primarily because of the look on their faces when I say "So's Uranium. I have some in the counter. What to try some?"

[phoenixprime]

*chuckle* Exactly.