Oh. Oh. OH. (well, shit.)catchmyfancyNovember 8 2008, 09:23:46 UTC
I have to admit, if a show I like is having a bit of a Moment, I'll do the turn-my-brain-off-and-wring-what-fun-you-can-out-of-it thing - because seeing how good Supernatural COULD be and seeing what it IS tends to drain what fun there is in it, out of it
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Re: Oh. Oh. OH. (well, shit.)halfshellvenusNovember 14 2008, 01:58:04 UTC
I absolutely gave up when they cast whoever it is who is playing Ruby now, because all i could hear was the howls of all the actual talented, charismatic, able actresses who could have taken the role and made it fabulous. No freaking kidding. All I hear is, "Oh I love her, she's so much hotter than Ruby 1.0." And I keep thinking, Really? Because pretty actresses are a dime a dozen, especially at the WB, and there has to be no shortage of ones who could actually do a line-reading like the understood it. :(
Interesting read. Many points well made. I agree with much of it, but also disagree with large chunks, too. Beyond that, I feel you've been too harsh in a number of places, particularly when prefacing your remarks with "It’s written rather in the hopes that Kripke will listen, and learn, that there’s always room for correcting mistakes, and always opportunities to turn things around.I don't see anything here that allows for the idea that listening or learning on Eric's part is something you either desire or will accept. Rather, it reads as both intentionally insulting and unrelentingly accusatory, pronouncing its judgement as already fully rendered; so the prefacing caveat that your assessment has any agenda at all to either teach or inform seems disingenuous to me. Far more, it seems soley designed to serve the latter portion of that paragraph in calling for Eric's dismissal, and providing reasons as to why you feel this is the obvious and only course to follow
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The author of this is currently in transit, so she won't be able to respond. I can't speak for her of course, but I can explain the long time coming bit. It means she began writing this quite a while ago (during season two, I think), but did not have the time to update it and post it unlocked until now. Her previous criticisms of Kripke and SPN were in friendslocked posts, some at insanejournal.
I've known the author for five years (through LJ and later in "real life"). I agree her anonymity may give pause, but anonymity is routine on LJ. Other than a few people who met me at wincon in Los Angeles last year, I'm anonymous, too.
About this line: It’s written rather in the hopes that Kripke will listen, and learn, that there’s always room for correcting mistakes, and always opportunities to turn things around. I'm sure she means that in general, not that Kripke will read this and learn from it. Otherwise, as you say, the tone would be different.
Longtime lurker here adding my two cents! I have to say that while reading, one thing really jumped out at me and that was the opinion that Ben Edlund is the best writer at Supernatural. I think he could be if someone reigned him in. He has written some of the skeeviest and misogynistic episodes on Supernatural to date, or at least I think so. He's written: Simon Said- implied that Andy used his powers to make women sleep with him Malleus Maleficarum- where all the women, good or bad, die in horrific ways. With the main bad lady stabbed repeatedly in a scene reminiscent of sex rather than violence. Ghostfacers- where the one gay dude of the episode (series?) is killed off, leaving all the straight people alive. Wishful Thinking- where a guy makes a wish for some woman to love him and pretty much rapes her for an entire month before Sam and Dean arrive. Ben Edlund was also the man who created the character of Bela, introduced in Bad Day at Black Rock. Though she could have been a neat addition to the show, she was handled very poorly
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one thing really jumped out at me and that was the opinion that Ben Edlund is the best writer at Supernatural.
I had to laugh at that too. Nightshifter is one of my favorite episodes, but the rest of his episodes are either just average or too cartoonish for me. I actually disliked Hollywood Babylon and Monster Movie, and Ghostfacers wasn't a particular favorite either. They're always so gimmicky.
Kripke wrote Home and In My Time of Dying, another couple of my favorites. So, yes, he's a little too invested in the online fandom and he's made mistakes, but it's still a darned entertaining show that inspires a lot of passion. A big chunk of that can be laid at his feet.
The original post strikes me as disgruntled fangirl bitching. (Which everyone is allowed to do, but don't act like you're speaking for all of fandom or that your opinions are the only valid ones.)
Nightshifter is one of my favorite episodes, but the rest of his episodes are either just average or too cartoonish for me. I actually disliked Hollywood Babylon and Monster Movie, and Ghostfacers wasn't a particular favorite either. They're always so gimmicky.
Yes! Gimmicky was a word I wanted to use, but had completely blanked on! And ya know, the episodes he writes normally have some moments that I enjoy. I just feel like he needs someone to keep him from crossing the line between funny/quirky and over-the-top/cartoony. I feel like he's forgotten that he writes for Supernatural now, not Buffy/Angel/The Tick where it would make sense for stories to be a bit crazier.
I sort of wish they could get Raelle Tucker back. She wrote some of my favorite Season 1 episodes: Dead in the Water, Faith, Nightmare, Salvation. And a couple Season 2 episodes: Children Shouldn't Play with Dead Things, Hunted, What is and Should Never Be.Those Season 1 episodes she actually co-wrote with Sera Gamble. I think those two made a great team. But with
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Okay, you said I was free to have my say, and while I got lost in your long ramble somewhere around 'buy how to write a screenplay' rant, I get the gist.
So, I have one question for you, if you hate the creator of the show (and by the looks of it, a lot of the production crew), why continue to watch?
No offense, but if he IS fired, the boys go too, they said as much on many occasion, and if you are soley there for the eycandy, I think the problem is not the mythology or writing, or anything else you nitpicked your way through, it may be the 'fairweather' fans such as yourself. Just saying, if you have THIS much to complain about, why are you still around, seems a little masochistic to me. Glass houses....that's all I mean.
That being said, I am not attacking, just curious with the magnitude of fury here, WHY you are still watching.
So, I have one question for you, if you hate the creator of the show (and by the looks of it, a lot of the production crew), why continue to watch?
Have you never watched/read the start of a show/film/book and was captivated by the concept and potential, only to be disappointed by it?
Some people can just brush it off and not feel annoyed about investing their time, and some folks can't. The "don't like, don't watch!" mentality is overused nowadays, and only serves to illustrate how increasingly unwilling people are to be confronted with criticism. Please, please, find a new argument.
Yes, I have, with Prison Break, and I stopped watching when it got too out of my interest zone.
And why should I find a new argument when the old argument is so effective. There is only so much a rational person will put up with, and then you are just holding on to false hope, especially after you trashed pretty much every aspect that makes the show run for 4,514 words.
Some people can just brush it off and not feel annoyed about investing their time, and some folks can't.You just kind of keep proving my point, if you STOPPED watching sooner, and STOPPED investing your time in it, you may not have this black cloud hanging over yourself, which some would consider self loathing, for continuing to inexplicably subject yourself to what seems to be torture at the hands of an 'unfit' show creator
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I like Kripke, and the show, and the fact that he doesn't cater to the criticism of the fans.
The problem is that Kripke listens TOO much to the fans. He has no conviction in his own vision; he's too easily swayed by fan opinion and the message boards. And this is by his own admission.
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No freaking kidding. All I hear is, "Oh I love her, she's so much hotter than Ruby 1.0." And I keep thinking, Really? Because pretty actresses are a dime a dozen, especially at the WB, and there has to be no shortage of ones who could actually do a line-reading like the understood it. :(
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I've known the author for five years (through LJ and later in "real life"). I agree her anonymity may give pause, but anonymity is routine on LJ. Other than a few people who met me at wincon in Los Angeles last year, I'm anonymous, too.
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That being said, others may not feel the same.
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Simon Said- implied that Andy used his powers to make women sleep with him
Malleus Maleficarum- where all the women, good or bad, die in horrific ways. With the main bad lady stabbed repeatedly in a scene reminiscent of sex rather than violence.
Ghostfacers- where the one gay dude of the episode (series?) is killed off, leaving all the straight people alive.
Wishful Thinking- where a guy makes a wish for some woman to love him and pretty much rapes her for an entire month before Sam and Dean arrive.
Ben Edlund was also the man who created the character of Bela, introduced in Bad Day at Black Rock. Though she could have been a neat addition to the show, she was handled very poorly ( ... )
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I had to laugh at that too. Nightshifter is one of my favorite episodes, but the rest of his episodes are either just average or too cartoonish for me. I actually disliked Hollywood Babylon and Monster Movie, and Ghostfacers wasn't a particular favorite either. They're always so gimmicky.
Kripke wrote Home and In My Time of Dying, another couple of my favorites. So, yes, he's a little too invested in the online fandom and he's made mistakes, but it's still a darned entertaining show that inspires a lot of passion. A big chunk of that can be laid at his feet.
The original post strikes me as disgruntled fangirl bitching. (Which everyone is allowed to do, but don't act like you're speaking for all of fandom or that your opinions are the only valid ones.)
Reply
Yes! Gimmicky was a word I wanted to use, but had completely blanked on! And ya know, the episodes he writes normally have some moments that I enjoy. I just feel like he needs someone to keep him from crossing the line between funny/quirky and over-the-top/cartoony. I feel like he's forgotten that he writes for Supernatural now, not Buffy/Angel/The Tick where it would make sense for stories to be a bit crazier.
I sort of wish they could get Raelle Tucker back. She wrote some of my favorite Season 1 episodes: Dead in the Water, Faith, Nightmare, Salvation. And a couple Season 2 episodes: Children Shouldn't Play with Dead Things, Hunted, What is and Should Never Be.Those Season 1 episodes she actually co-wrote with Sera Gamble. I think those two made a great team. But with ( ... )
Reply
So, I have one question for you, if you hate the creator of the show (and by the looks of it, a lot of the production crew), why continue to watch?
No offense, but if he IS fired, the boys go too, they said as much on many occasion, and if you are soley there for the eycandy, I think the problem is not the mythology or writing, or anything else you nitpicked your way through, it may be the 'fairweather' fans such as yourself. Just saying, if you have THIS much to complain about, why are you still around, seems a little masochistic to me. Glass houses....that's all I mean.
That being said, I am not attacking, just curious with the magnitude of fury here, WHY you are still watching.
Reply
So, I have one question for you, if you hate the creator of the show (and by the looks of it, a lot of the production crew), why continue to watch?
Have you never watched/read the start of a show/film/book and was captivated by the concept and potential, only to be disappointed by it?
Some people can just brush it off and not feel annoyed about investing their time, and some folks can't. The "don't like, don't watch!" mentality is overused nowadays, and only serves to illustrate how increasingly unwilling people are to be confronted with criticism. Please, please, find a new argument.
Reply
And why should I find a new argument when the old argument is so effective. There is only so much a rational person will put up with, and then you are just holding on to false hope, especially after you trashed pretty much every aspect that makes the show run for 4,514 words.
Some people can just brush it off and not feel annoyed about investing their time, and some folks can't.You just kind of keep proving my point, if you STOPPED watching sooner, and STOPPED investing your time in it, you may not have this black cloud hanging over yourself, which some would consider self loathing, for continuing to inexplicably subject yourself to what seems to be torture at the hands of an 'unfit' show creator ( ... )
Reply
The problem is that Kripke listens TOO much to the fans. He has no conviction in his own vision; he's too easily swayed by fan opinion and the message boards. And this is by his own admission.
Reply
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