I got a survey from maria rudd asking about this. The Op-Ex section on Sunday in the "by the numbers" (my favorite part) said that eminent domain has been threatened around 60 times but actually used 10 times. I forget the time frame but I think it was 10 years. Once a year doesn't sound like abuse to me.
god bless jonathan gawrockinrehabMarch 29 2006, 05:05:05 UTC
Yeah, this has really been blown out of proportion.
People forget that the perpetrators of eminent domain are highly accountable to the people, in a process we have every November called an 'election.'
Even in the famous (and egregious) case of the town in florida that was going to tear down quality affordable housing for mansions, the officials responsible were reelected. So either there is something seriously wrong with our democracy (an argument which has its merits) or the people of the town thought that eminent domain wasn't so bad.
Frederic Bastiat got it right
anonymous
March 29 2006, 04:36:30 UTC
Economic development occurs every day without government intervention. Bastiat got it right when he wrote:
"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain."
Bastiat never been to ComptonrockinrehabMarch 29 2006, 04:57:22 UTC
Yes, economic development occurs every day without government intervention, but have you been to Detroit? There is economic development there, but it is all 30 miles from downtown (and 20 miles from Warren and other first-ring suburbs). A similar thing happens here in the Twin Cities (where are you, mysterious stranger?), and anyone who wants an excellent rather than merely a cheap society will recognize that we need to use all of the tools at our disposal to achieve it.
From that quote I can tell that your goal was to insult me, but please don't make my argument more facile than it is. I'm not arguing that we should nationalize all industry, I'm merely saying we shouldn't have a law that specifically prevents cities from pursuing their economic betterment.
Re: Bastiat never been to Compton
anonymous
March 31 2006, 01:45:43 UTC
How funny and revealing that you ask if I have ever been to Detroit, of all places.
Yes, I have been to Detroit--the land of the infamous use of eminent domain in Poletown.
In 1981 the neighbourhood was cleared to make way for the construction of the General Motors Detroit/Hamtramck Assembly plant. The city of Detroit relied on eminent domain to compel the displacement of the 4,200 people who lived in the area, along with their 1,300 homes, 140 businesses, six churches and one hospital.
Unfortunately, the City never realized the "economic development" that was promised by the takings.
Detroit is an example of why municipalities should not have the eminent domain powers you advocate.
Re: Bastiat never been to ComptonrockinrehabApril 1 2006, 04:14:43 UTC
I have heard of this case before, but I don't see what it has to do with my point about sprawl. While I agree that this was probably a poor use of eminent domain, I doubt that it hastened much the hollowing-out of the Detroit metro area. Like most people, I recognize that mistakes can happen, and elsewhere in these comments I've mentioned other poor uses of eminent domain, and that I'm in favor of laws that more adequately ensure that property owners will be fairly compensated. You, apparently, are quite familiar with the Poletown case. Can you tell me how many of the officials responsible were reelected?
Also, if you have a chance, please explain to me why cities should be allowed to use eminent domain for roads but not for general economic development.
And one more thing? If you have some ideas about how older developed areas might redevelop without eminent domain, please share those as well.
Zoning merely dictates what type of development is allowed in a certain place, whereas eminent domain is about the facilitation of development. So this really isn't about zoning.
Damn, I submitted that piece to the paper, too. Shoulda made it a little more clear.
no, i think the rest of the world is probably less ignorant about this than i am and can figure it out.
so zoning doesn't allow like... two residential lots to be converted into one manufacturing lot or whatever? can you have rezoning w/out eminent domain? or vice versa?
here's a bookrockinrehabMarch 30 2006, 00:54:07 UTC
Zoning only has to do with the use of a lot. Rezoning happens all the time without eminent domain, usually because someone buys a lot and wants to do something the current zoning doesn't allow. For example, the owner of the French Meadow Bakery recently bought a house and wanted to tear it down for a parking lot. The house was zoned C1 (which allows for residential use in addition to commercial) but C4 is the only zoning level that allows for a parking lot as a primary use, so he had to apply for a rezoning. Cities also instigate rezoning on their own in order to encourage redevelopment
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People forget that the perpetrators of eminent domain are highly accountable to the people, in a process we have every November called an 'election.'
Even in the famous (and egregious) case of the town in florida that was going to tear down quality affordable housing for mansions, the officials responsible were reelected. So either there is something seriously wrong with our democracy (an argument which has its merits) or the people of the town thought that eminent domain wasn't so bad.
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Just kidding. Thanks for posting this.
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"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain."
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From that quote I can tell that your goal was to insult me, but please don't make my argument more facile than it is. I'm not arguing that we should nationalize all industry, I'm merely saying we shouldn't have a law that specifically prevents cities from pursuing their economic betterment.
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Yes, I have been to Detroit--the land of the infamous use of eminent domain in Poletown.
In 1981 the neighbourhood was cleared to make way for the construction of the General Motors Detroit/Hamtramck Assembly plant. The city of Detroit relied on eminent domain to compel the displacement of the 4,200 people who lived in the area, along with their 1,300 homes, 140 businesses, six churches and one hospital.
Unfortunately, the City never realized the "economic development" that was promised by the takings.
Detroit is an example of why municipalities should not have the eminent domain powers you advocate.
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Also, if you have a chance, please explain to me why cities should be allowed to use eminent domain for roads but not for general economic development.
And one more thing? If you have some ideas about how older developed areas might redevelop without eminent domain, please share those as well.
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or is this even related to zoning at all?
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Damn, I submitted that piece to the paper, too. Shoulda made it a little more clear.
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so zoning doesn't allow like... two residential lots to be converted into one manufacturing lot or whatever? can you have rezoning w/out eminent domain? or vice versa?
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