Is this it for Gin? Is he over? ("sacrifices himself" = dead?)
Nobody dies in the present!
SPOILER: [series spoilers]This is true...until it isn't. Now I don't know if this joke is funny or sad. (I actually laugh about it, as I'm reading, and then get sad.)
But anyway, aside from a very specific case,
tragic flashback = somebody will probably die present = nobody will die
[Spoilery spoilers]I will never cease to be impressed with the fact that gnine was actually able to keep up enough of a poker face to convince me that was true when she knew it wasn't. I will never be that good of a pimp.
[more spoilers] To be honest, the only reason I added the caveat is that mangaroo already knows about the exception. When you know about that, it's hard to accept "nobody dies in the present" as truth the rest of the time. Even though it totally is.
You both seem pretty invested in [this paradigm]this lie. Like it's a thing, y'know? Is it just something among you nakama, is it from an SMS, is it a tv trope?
[sort of spoilers] As far as I know, it's not something Oda has officially said, in an SBS or elsewhere (though I do seem to recall him saying in an interview that he wanted to avoid death and romance in his manga). I remember joking about it with both mereflair and gnine; I'm unsure if it's just something that was a joke for us, or fandom in general, but I think as you get further into the series, you can't help but notice how consistent this is. It doesn't matter WHAT happens to a character (stabbed, burned, shot, broken skull, eaten by a crocodile, blown up by a GINORMOUS BOMB THAT'S SUPPOSED TO KILL EVERYONE WITHIN FIVE KILOMETERS), they just do not die, despite there being at least one death in almost every tragic flashback. (I should note that this excludes nameless minions, who may or may not die, it's not really clear.)
[really real spoilers]Now, whether this was all a setup for breaking our hearts when somebody actually DOES die, I don't know. But that doesn't mean it wasn't true for the first fifty-some volumes of the series.
[Spoilers run rampant]I agree, it's the consistency that made this into a fan joke/trope for x million chapters. Present time line: "Hey, you really liked that character, didn't you? Too bad he's DEAD!" 20 chapters later: "PSYCH! not dead yet!"
Meanwhile, in every flashback: death death weep heartbreak.
(Pay no attention to the edits behind the curtain. I hate having to update from my phone during breaks, but I can't resist.)
[my spoiler tag can beat up your spoiler tag]I guess the one thing spoilers deprive me of is the wonder of that impact. I was reading a TV Trope -- grrr to both of you for ever introducing me to the site AND for linking it in your posts so I get sucked in for a carpet ride at least once a month -- about the Bleach spoiler, and the troper just had a sense of awe about it.
Also (and unrelated), I feel like it's Thursday. Tomorrow's going to be weird.
I guess the one thing spoilers deprive me of is the wonder of that impact.
Well, yes. I know you said the other day that if a story is only good because it surprises you then you're not interested in it, but I think there's something to be said for experiencing something for the first time as you're reading/watching, rather than knowing it's coming because someone told you.
But I'm not the boss of you, so even if I think you should be watching the anime on Hulu or checking the manga out from the library rather than hanging out in this spoiler minefield, you are free to ignore me.
[it's a like a prophylactic for ideas]Honestly (and I hope I don't sound like a jerk), I won't remember 9/10s of this if I ever do commit to the series. Big spoiler was spoiled elsewhere and is remembered because a Great Fuss was made over it being a big spoiler (which I appreciate, since it prevents me from randomly announcing "[spoiler] was his sled!" as if it's not a big deal...and, no, not even the nature of the spoiler is enough for me to appreciate that it's a Big Deal. I'm obtuse like that).
Mostly what I'm storing away are the constructs surrounding the series: the title page arcs, the SBS (hee...SMS...two do-S go into a bar...)
Edit: ooh, and what Sara said about heroism and modern warfare above. I remember those things.
Honestly (and I hope I don't sound like a jerk), I won't remember 9/10s of this if I ever do commit to the series
No, I think that's a good point, actually. Sometimes it's making a big deal out of a spoiler that makes it memorable; otherwise we just forget and can consume a series as though we never heard it. That or we don't understand a spoiler we just heard (or even that we heard a spoiler), which amounts to the same thing. One of my clearest spoiler memories (do I need to warn for Marmalade Boy spoilers?) is that I accidentally read somewhere that Yuu and Miki were brother and sister. I was bummed to go into the series knowing such a huge detail (or maybe I had already started but wasn't very far in?), but did so anyway--only to find out, of course, that it wasn't true at all. In a way, the spoiler made the ending of the series MORE of a surprise for me.
I am super happy that you are reading and commenting! And if in the end you forget 90% of it and can experience the series afresh when you do read it, all the better.
I have to say I recommend reading over watching. I have done and continue to do both, but there were so many sections of the anime where it seemed to draaaaaaag on, where the manga handles the same story just as effectively and far more economically. The only thing I prefer in the anime is the pretty and the fact that the battles kind of make more sense (so hard to see who's punching who in the manga). But on the flip side, the battles tend to last longer in the anime.
It never occurred to me to check the library to see if they carried the series. And now I have hold requests on the first five volumes. (Wish library holds worked more like Netflix. Romance Dawn is out until 6/30, and I'll probably get hold calls on 2-5 before then. Oh, well, I can usually zip through a manga volume in less than an hour, so this may all work out.)
Nobody dies in the present!
SPOILER:
[series spoilers]This is true...until it isn't. Now I don't know if this joke is funny or sad. (I actually laugh about it, as I'm reading, and then get sad.)
But anyway, aside from a very specific case,
tragic flashback = somebody will probably die
present = nobody will die
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To be honest, the only reason I added the caveat is that mangaroo already knows about the exception. When you know about that, it's hard to accept "nobody dies in the present" as truth the rest of the time. Even though it totally is.
(How, Pell? HOW?)
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You both seem pretty invested in [this paradigm]this lie. Like it's a thing, y'know? Is it just something among you nakama, is it from an SMS, is it a tv trope?
Reply
As far as I know, it's not something Oda has officially said, in an SBS or elsewhere (though I do seem to recall him saying in an interview that he wanted to avoid death and romance in his manga). I remember joking about it with both mereflair and gnine; I'm unsure if it's just something that was a joke for us, or fandom in general, but I think as you get further into the series, you can't help but notice how consistent this is. It doesn't matter WHAT happens to a character (stabbed, burned, shot, broken skull, eaten by a crocodile, blown up by a GINORMOUS BOMB THAT'S SUPPOSED TO KILL EVERYONE WITHIN FIVE KILOMETERS), they just do not die, despite there being at least one death in almost every tragic flashback. (I should note that this excludes nameless minions, who may or may not die, it's not really clear.)
[really real spoilers]Now, whether this was all a setup for breaking our hearts when somebody actually DOES die, I don't know. But that doesn't mean it wasn't true for the first fifty-some volumes of the series.
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Meanwhile, in every flashback: death death weep heartbreak.
(Pay no attention to the edits behind the curtain. I hate having to update from my phone during breaks, but I can't resist.)
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Also (and unrelated), I feel like it's Thursday. Tomorrow's going to be weird.
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Well, yes. I know you said the other day that if a story is only good because it surprises you then you're not interested in it, but I think there's something to be said for experiencing something for the first time as you're reading/watching, rather than knowing it's coming because someone told you.
But I'm not the boss of you, so even if I think you should be watching the anime on Hulu or checking the manga out from the library rather than hanging out in this spoiler minefield, you are free to ignore me.
I feel like it's Thursday.
Weird, me too!
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Mostly what I'm storing away are the constructs surrounding the series: the title page arcs, the SBS (hee...SMS...two do-S go into a bar...)
Edit: ooh, and what Sara said about heroism and modern warfare above. I remember those things.
Reply
No, I think that's a good point, actually. Sometimes it's making a big deal out of a spoiler that makes it memorable; otherwise we just forget and can consume a series as though we never heard it. That or we don't understand a spoiler we just heard (or even that we heard a spoiler), which amounts to the same thing. One of my clearest spoiler memories (do I need to warn for Marmalade Boy spoilers?) is that I accidentally read somewhere that Yuu and Miki were brother and sister. I was bummed to go into the series knowing such a huge detail (or maybe I had already started but wasn't very far in?), but did so anyway--only to find out, of course, that it wasn't true at all. In a way, the spoiler made the ending of the series MORE of a surprise for me.
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I have to say I recommend reading over watching. I have done and continue to do both, but there were so many sections of the anime where it seemed to draaaaaaag on, where the manga handles the same story just as effectively and far more economically. The only thing I prefer in the anime is the pretty and the fact that the battles kind of make more sense (so hard to see who's punching who in the manga). But on the flip side, the battles tend to last longer in the anime.
Reply
It never occurred to me to check the library to see if they carried the series. And now I have hold requests on the first five volumes. (Wish library holds worked more like Netflix. Romance Dawn is out until 6/30, and I'll probably get hold calls on 2-5 before then. Oh, well, I can usually zip through a manga volume in less than an hour, so this may all work out.)
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If Romance Dawn proves elusive, Viz Manga has the digital version of chapter one online for free as a preview (you can view it in a web browser).
http://www.vizmanga.com/one-piece
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