A lot of the action points overlap to varying degrees, I feel - might it be easier to sort of... have a keyword/phrase for each day?
eg:
DAY 1: HI LJ. - We let them know about 7 Days; we're doing this because we want this Streamlined List Of All Our Questions answered. We propose an open dialogue in seven days' time.
DAY 2: WHAT HAPPENED. - Discussion of fandom on LJ, as well as problems with policy that led to Strikethrough, converging on what it meant for fandom in particular, and why we were so upset; communication of this with LJ/6A.
DAY 3: SO... - We're still unhappy. Therefore, we will take all that money we vowed not to spend renewing our paid accounts/icons/etc - ie, giving it to you - and donate it to charity instead. (Possibly we will also screw with your storage space!)
DAY 4: BUT! - We will still work with you. We are smart, and there are a lot of us. If you let us, we can do a lot of good. E.g: here, have some predator journals. This is how to address the real issue
( ... )
I feel pretty confident that once the goals and the main 7 points have been chosen we can work the overlapping points into a general theme. I just didn't want to say "this is what we should do on which day" because i thought it might limit the poll results.
Yeah, I know I keep talking about this and apparently can't shut up, but I think any type of movement like this seriously needs to establish where they stand on the pedophilia community. Because if you don't, you may end up doing more harm than good to fandom. I'm serious, guys. If you don't want to be associated with NAMBLA-types who want to latch onto your movement and use you, then you best get to work to do something about it pretty fast.
I didn't have enough room to expand on the "work to ferret out criminal ljs" option, but that would involve specifically working WITH the records Perverted Justice has in order to target journals of pedophiles that LJ MISSED before the purge. We will notify lj and report them to Abuse, and I think that will make our stance on the issue perfectly clear. It will let LJ know that we support what they wanted to do, just not the way they went about it. Make sense?
THANK YOU. *weeps* I guess I'm pretty worn out with hashing this out with people all day today. And being called a hypocrite for not want to support creepy child abusers. OMG. Anyway, thanks again. I've been really scared about fandom as a whole being considered a part of that community.
Also, I have voted now. Personally, I think it would be best if, at this point, the actions fans take are mainly positive. I think it would be the best way to represent fandom and gain respect and educate people.
The only idea up there I kind of hate is the one where we would start policing for actual criminal blogs. Vigilantism leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and I'd be concerned that we'd just be embarking on our very own witch hunt. I can say for certain that I wouldn't participate if that was one of the seven items.
I don't know if we need to do something as "proactive" as policing blogs myself. But we definitely need to do something which clearly indicates that we have no association with pedophile groups, do not approve of them, do not support them, etc. Whether it's disclaimers on the group, or something else -- a Not!Press Release, statements from people about their feelings about it, I don't know. Maybe it's best not to get too into it, but I think we really need to communicate to LJ that it's not what we're about. Maybe even any charity fundraising we do can be potentially part of that (if we donate to organization like RAINN for example). I just know that I can't participate in anything which doesn't ensure that the pedophile community can't try to hijack the platform and use it for their own ends.
(God, someone stop me. I keep repeating the same stuff over and over again, I know it's probably annoying, but I just feel so strongly about this.)
I don't have a problem with disclaimers or anything like that, but I just don't think it is our place as users to police other users. I don't other users trolling through my journal looking for illegal activity to report me for (file sharing, anyone?), and I don't want any part of doing that to other users. There are people whose job it is to do these things, and I think it's inappropriate for us to take that into our own hands. I think it's actually kind of... icky. And a slippery slope-ish.
That said, if this particular agenda is extremely important to the comm, I'll be happy to just go on my way. :) Seriously. That is not a sarcastic remark.
If we don't police for other blogs (which, ok, yes, is rather vigilantism and potentially a Really Bad Idea if done wrong) then I think we need to do SOMETHING to show lj and outsiders at large that a) we don't support pedophilia, b) we don't want lj to be a home for pedophilia comms, c) we want to do SOMETHING postive within lj to help with that problem (because it IS a problem), d) we want to do something positive IN GENERAL about the problem and, e) the problem of child porn within fandom is something we take seriously and don't dismiss with just: "but it's fiction so it's perfectly acceptable
( ... )
This is all really positive, really a great thing to read! I've practically got tears in my eyes, seriously - b/c fandom has such coolness like this.
Agree re: no vigilantism. We are not professionals on this. And we have Other Work to do - that actually, only we (fandom) can do!
So yes, agree: to the charity being child or sexual abuse centered. RAINN or other, yep.
Question: are there spokespeople or others at RAINN who are fans? That would be the most excellent way to set this up, through someone who's fen or cool with fandom (I notice Christina Ricci is their national spokesperson - anyone know anything there?)
All of what everyone says! I especially like the way ghost_lingering lists it out. I don't see why we can't work with (1) fandom_lawyers and (2) P Justice and (3) LJ/6A Abuse to line out some brighter lines, and really, delineate the gray areas too. Set up some guidelines
( ... )
Re: | communitycopinggogglesJune 2 2007, 02:32:14 UTC
*pops in*
Aja, tropes, and I are actually in the process of setting up a charity drive community centred on a small number of different charities in the US and UK dedicated to the prevention of child abuse, of which RAINN is foremost. (And if donation ends up as one of the fandom actions, it'll probably be one of the link-to's.) We've been in contact with Sweet Charity, fanfolk who worked with RAINN earlier this year, and are actually waiting on a call/email back from RAINN (who are unfortunately v. busy at the moment, since they have a number of concerts and campaigns and things going on right now) to see if we can set up some kind of donation mechanism specifically for this drive.
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Can you give me your email? I emailed Ethrosdemon this morning about certain aspects of all this, but I wanted to CC you as well.
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Sent again. Let me know if it still doesn't show up. Some days I can't seem to get the simple things right! Only the big complicated ones :-)
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eg:
DAY 1: HI LJ.
- We let them know about 7 Days; we're doing this because we want this Streamlined List Of All Our Questions answered. We propose an open dialogue in seven days' time.
DAY 2: WHAT HAPPENED.
- Discussion of fandom on LJ, as well as problems with policy that led to Strikethrough, converging on what it meant for fandom in particular, and why we were so upset; communication of this with LJ/6A.
DAY 3: SO...
- We're still unhappy. Therefore, we will take all that money we vowed not to spend renewing our paid accounts/icons/etc - ie, giving it to you - and donate it to charity instead. (Possibly we will also screw with your storage space!)
DAY 4: BUT!
- We will still work with you. We are smart, and there are a lot of us. If you let us, we can do a lot of good. E.g: here, have some predator journals. This is how to address the real issue ( ... )
Reply
I feel pretty confident that once the goals and the main 7 points have been chosen we can work the overlapping points into a general theme. I just didn't want to say "this is what we should do on which day" because i thought it might limit the poll results.
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I didn't have enough room to expand on the "work to ferret out criminal ljs" option, but that would involve specifically working WITH the records Perverted Justice has in order to target journals of pedophiles that LJ MISSED before the purge. We will notify lj and report them to Abuse, and I think that will make our stance on the issue perfectly clear. It will let LJ know that we support what they wanted to do, just not the way they went about it. Make sense?
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Yay. <3
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Otherwise, yay! :D
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(God, someone stop me. I keep repeating the same stuff over and over again, I know it's probably annoying, but I just feel so strongly about this.)
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That said, if this particular agenda is extremely important to the comm, I'll be happy to just go on my way. :) Seriously. That is not a sarcastic remark.
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Agree re: no vigilantism. We are not professionals on this. And we have Other Work to do - that actually, only we (fandom) can do!
So yes, agree: to the charity being child or sexual abuse centered. RAINN or other, yep.
Question: are there spokespeople or others at RAINN who are fans? That would be the most excellent way to set this up, through someone who's fen or cool with fandom (I notice Christina Ricci is their national spokesperson - anyone know anything there?)
All of what everyone says! I especially like the way ghost_lingering lists it out. I don't see why we can't work with (1) fandom_lawyers and (2) P Justice and (3) LJ/6A Abuse to line out some brighter lines, and really, delineate the gray areas too. Set up some guidelines ( ... )
Reply
Aja, tropes, and I are actually in the process of setting up a charity drive community centred on a small number of different charities in the US and UK dedicated to the prevention of child abuse, of which RAINN is foremost. (And if donation ends up as one of the fandom actions, it'll probably be one of the link-to's.) We've been in contact with Sweet Charity, fanfolk who worked with RAINN earlier this year, and are actually waiting on a call/email back from RAINN (who are unfortunately v. busy at the moment, since they have a number of concerts and campaigns and things going on right now) to see if we can set up some kind of donation mechanism specifically for this drive.
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