Comments | shadowscast: Four things that always kinda bugged me about Angel: the Series

shadowscast

Four things that always kinda bugged me about Angel: the Series

Jun 09, 2010 23:56

Hey, so, quite recently, I finished an epic rewatch of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel: the Series. I use the word "epic" because I was doing this rewatch with a friend, and it took us five years to complete. (It didn't help that during that time, he moved to Seattle for a year and I had a baby and, well, life sure does get in the way of TV- ( Read more... )

meta, buffyverse

Comments 69

ladypeyton June 10 2010, 15:02:48 UTC

(Here via sueworld2003's linkage)

Technically Angel achieved perfect happiness during the cuddling that immediately followed sex, but aside from that your post is bang on!

shadowscast June 10 2010, 19:47:37 UTC

Technically Angel achieved perfect happiness during the cuddling that immediately followed sex

Yes, others have pointed that out. I was misremembering the scene, I guess!

eowyn_315 June 10 2010, 15:41:25 UTC

1. I don't think IWRY could possibly be Angel's shanshu, because the prophecy specifies that the shanshu is Angel's reward, and that first he "has to survive the coming darkness, the apocalyptic battles, a few plagues, and some - uh, several - not that many - fiends that will be unleashed." I don't see how all of that could possibly have already occurred. Okay, there are a few apocalyptic battles on BtVS, and I suppose you could consider some of the things Buffy fights "fiends" - but again, Buffy generally fights them, not Angel. And I can't recall any plagues. So I think the shanshu is still a ways off ( ... )

shadowscast June 10 2010, 20:09:36 UTC

eowyn_315 June 11 2010, 01:50:22 UTC

Hmmmm, interesting. I was thinking that all the things Wesley talked about were obstacles that Angel would personally have to face, not just stuff that happened while he existed - trials, in a sense, things he has to accomplish before he can get his reward. Also, I expected them to be supernaturally caused, so things like world wars or AIDS wouldn't count. But that's just my assumption based on the show's general themes, and there's nothing that says that explicitly, so you could interpret those events however you want, really. :)

Appropriate icon is appropriate.

shakatany June 10 2010, 16:25:34 UTC

Is Holland saying that all of human evil is rooted in an external malevolent source that could potentially be destroyed, leaving us all holding hands and singing Kumbaya in our earthly paradise? So is W&H a manifestation of that First Evil critter who's interested in Angel and who remains on the loose after "Chosen" - Buffy & co. just defeated his Turok Han minions so they won that battle but how can they permanently defeat an incorporeal being? And if they did, would that, as you say, leave us all holding hands and singing Kumbaya in our earthly paradise?

It often seems to me that BtVS and Ats are set in two different AUs.

Shakatany

shadowscast June 10 2010, 20:14:27 UTC

It often seems to me that BtVS and Ats are set in two different AUs.

Yeah. Like how the Powers that Be are never mentioned in AtS, while the First Evil is never mentioned in BtVS?

One of my pet theories is that the First Evil is one of the PtB, as are the senior partners of W&H. I mean, who ever said that the PtB had to be benevolent? All we really know is that they're powerful.

shakatany June 10 2010, 20:47:06 UTC

Like how the Powers that Be are never mentioned in AtS, while the First Evil is never mentioned in BtVS? I think you mean the opposite *g*

You're right they could all be so-called higher beings and helpless pieces of the game they play upon this checker-board of nights and days (to paraphrase the Rubiyat). There was no way Buffy & co could defeat the incorporeal FE and from the looks of things neither could Angel defeat W&H

Shakatany

shadowscast June 10 2010, 21:12:19 UTC

Heh, whoops, exactly the opposite, yes. :-)

All-knowing, all-powerful beings are kinda boring, but mostly-knowing, very-powerful beings that play out their power struggles with each other using humans, vamps etc. as pawns has definite narrative potential.

Love your icon, btw!

Thread 11

v_chan_paradise June 12 2010, 03:25:06 UTC

just a little (but essential) question. Are you still working on "That good night" or is this fic abandoned? Please say it's still going on!! It's beyond great!!!!!

shadowscast June 12 2010, 04:37:49 UTC

It's not abandoned, but it's currently on hold while I finish another story that's been stuck in WIP-ness for even longer than "That Good Night" has.

I'm really pleased to hear you're still interested, though! :-)

caerglas August 12 2010, 01:20:06 UTC

Here from a SD Herald link, and I love your fic.

Your take on Shanshu is pretty great. I also feel that the Prophecy around Connor, that Angel will kill him, throws even more uncertainty in the Shanshu mix--because it establishes that prophecies can be faked or inaccurate. Wesley confirms the prophecy with a Giant Talking Hamburger Oracle--that when blood dots the blue sky, when blah blah... when certain signs are shown, that Angel will kill his son. Saijin (or whomever) later reveals that he faked the prophecy, because Connor was going to kill him (which he doesn't, unless bottling him up counts?). The fact that Angel 'kills' Connor later on still doesn't really match Wes' confirmed prophecy--the sky wasn't flecked with blood, etc.

So for me, all prophecies seemed pretty shaky after A:tS--even those gods or Oracles who were supposed to make confirmation absolute couldn't actually get it right. So who wrote the Shanshu? Why are they the arbiter of the future?

shadowscast August 12 2010, 16:38:54 UTC

I also feel that the Prophecy around Connor, that Angel will kill him, throws even more uncertainty in the Shanshu mix--because it establishes that prophecies can be faked or inaccurate. Wesley confirms the prophecy with a Giant Talking Hamburger Oracle--that when blood dots the blue sky, when blah blah

Oh, hah, I'd forgotten about the Giant Talking Hamburger Oracle! Hee. And yes, that's a really good point.