More Prop 8

[sixfullerst]

At this moment 10,000 people are marching in protest  of the passage of California's Prop 8. They started at Sunset Junction & are making their way to the intersection of Hollywood & Vine.  This is the fourth night of protests/demonstrations & another is scheduled for tomorrow.

Question: Do you think these protests will help or hurt the cause?

Comments

[beauty_forashes]

Well, what's the better alternative, accepting the outcome of prop. 8 without a peep and giving up? I don't think so. I don't think the marches (from what I've seen of them on YouTube, which I checked before replying) will alienate anyone who isn't alienated anyway, and what damage can it do to the "cause" that hasn't been done already? I don't think marches, rallies or any sort of protest has an immediate effect, things won't be reconsidered or changed just because of a public protest. But I still think there has to be a protest because the only alternative is meek surrender, and that's unacceptable

[sixfullerst]

Wow! I really appreciate your input. I feel much the same way but when confronted with friends' differing opinions, I began to question my actions. Being a child of the sixties, all I know how to do is march. I do think when it's done in a dignified manner than it can be an effective tool of change. I think my friends were concerned that the protesters would inevitably blocks intersections, driveways, etc. & just piss off more people. I did it their way today & that was good, too.

I had read your "gay pride" entry when you wrote it & I agree 100% - way more harm than good! One event that seems to work is Gay Day at Disneyland. Everyone goes out of their way to be friendly & polite and for that one day a year - life is as it should be. You don't have all these problems in Germany, do you?

Again, thank you for your comment. I alway value your opinion.

[beauty_forashes]

You don't have all these problems in Germany, do you?

Not on the scale that the States apparently does, but then the religious right doesn't have that kind of influence here. Europe is a lot more liberal in general, and here, gay marriage is legal, people are out in entertainment, politics, etc., the mayor of our capital is openly gay. It's not the same, though, and we don't get all the benefits het couples do - tax breaks, for example. That's why it's seldom taken advantage of, there's really no reason to do it aside from having a slip of paper. I read a statistic the other day that said since it had been legalized six years ago, there have only been 1,500 gay marriages in Germany.

[sixfullerst]

"It's not the same, though, and we don't get all the benefits het couples do - tax breaks, for example. That's why it's seldom taken advantage of, there's really no reason to do it aside from having a slip of paper".

That is exactly what the problem is! So you can be legally married in Germany buy still don't have the same rights. That is so wrong. Here, domestic partnerships take care of most legal issues but it's not marriage. The feeling is that same gender couples being denied the right to marry makes them second class citizens, separate is not equal, etc. Sounds like if we ever get things fixed here, we need come over to Germany & stir up discontentment over there:)

Thanks again for your input, I really appreciate it:)

[debbie1701]

My opinion is that these protests, provided they're non-violent, are the best thing. More protests are needed. Here's a quote from today's paper, from a married lesbian couple, who have children:
"Our goal is to be like everyone else, but when you become invisible your rights are no longer protected. One lesson we have learned is to be more out there."
I've wondered why Pro same-sex marriage groups were kind of quiet before the election. I know they were advised, but I think they were incorrectly advised.

[sixfullerst]

Thank you so much for your input. I didn't see the paper so I really appreciated the quote. After much thought, I've decided that everyone should listen to their own heart & act as they see fit. (But it is important to act!)

I went to All Saints in Pasadena yesterday. After the service the 43 couples that had been married there, were a backdrop for a new conference covered by all the local channels. There was a wonderful moment when one of the Clergy, looked from the couples, to the camera and said, "What God has joined together, let no man put asunder." Take that(!) intolerant religious right.

[snowmore]

This is not a matter to sit down and take it quietly. As to how much influence protesting has, it will be hard to tell any time soon.

I am hoping that the Supreme Court of California will once again step in and inform the bigotted masses what is equality and rights for everyone.

I hope there is a lovely celebration in church tomorrow based on love and humanity.

My thoughts are with you, your friends and all those peacefully marching! :)

[sixfullerst]

Since posting, I've decided everyone has their own way to protest/voice their feelings. The friends that disagree with marching in the street, choose to lead by example every day of there life. "C" is out in the public school system & is the faculty adviser of the Gay-Straight Alliance. They always introduce each other as "my husband." I think that goes a long way & it takes guts.

I'm not a church person but I did attend yesterday. The service was healing & quite lovely. After the service, the 43 couples that had been married there were the back drop for a new conference covered by all local channels. As I told debbie1701; at one point, the Pastor looked at the couples, then the camera & said, "What God has joined together, let no man put asunder." It was definitely a moment.

Thank you for commenting & for your good thoughts.

[batboy126]

I suspect your friends are right. The protests will probably do very little to convince Yes voters, and might well alienate anyone who was wavering. Not that I blame the protestors, but both sides have demonized the other to the extent that I can't see any possibility but further conflict.
Ashmedai:"But I still think there has to be a protest because the only alternative is meek surrender, and that's unacceptable."
That's almost never the only alternative.

[beauty_forashes]

That's almost never the only alternative.

I wasn't very clear there, I meant *a* protest in some form, whatever form seems viable. I don't see marches as being very effective, at least not immediately, but what would be a better idea?

[sixfullerst]

". . .but both sides have demonized the other to the extent that I can't see any possibility but further conflict." That is a valid point. Intolerance goes both ways. The friends I mentioned are 'out' in all situations, convenient or not. I think that is a truthful and effective way.

"That's almost never the only alternative." Others?

Thank you very much for your thoughts & taking time to comment.

*belly rubs to Bunter & Darla*

[batboy126]

Others? I'm handicapped by not living in California, and not being familiar with either the details of the proposition itself, or all the arguments on either side. Also by not being especially clever with things like this.
I'd like the see the Yes people put on the defensive for once. Issue a challenge: you don't want to see us married? Fine, but that victory comes with responsibilities. Come up with a plan which will keep you happy, without impinging on the rights of others. I know, some of them will say it's not their job to provide any help to the 'other side.' But a lot of them won't. It's at least opening up the discussion, and operating on the theory that it is a discussion, not an us-or-them struggle to the death.