Ryune, I love you dearly, and I deeply appreciate hearing from the perspective of a devout Christian on issues that I, as a mostly-agnostic-ish Jew, approach from a profoundly different perspective. But this post is eating my flist, OM NOM NOM. Can you put at least some behind a cut please?
Trying to formulate a response. Fear the teal deer.
I would have much more respect for the integrity and actual moral conviction of the Religious Right (henceforth referred to as RR) if there were a single pro-life group in favor of contraception, sex ed, birth control pills, and similar. I've met many individuals who are, but no groups. This only leads me to believe that, whatever they may say, the RR's base view is that sex is bad, women who have sex are bad, and those filthy sluts should be punished for having sex. When the same groups oppose government support for single mothers (you know, the ones they forbade from having abortions), and support legislation preventing gay couples or single people from adopting, the message I get is loud and clear.
On a perfectly basic level, it's kind of hard to not oppose people who hold as a basic tenet of their belief that I and many of my friends are going to Hell for no reason other than romantic and/or sexual interest in members of the same sex. I mean, really? Really? Even positing that Hell exists (Jewish doctrine does
( ... )
What's funny is, I don't disagree. Nowhere in the bible does it say "thou shalt not have crushes on girls" or "thou shalt have a church-ordained marriage" or "thou shalt never have sex" (hello Song of Songs aka Bible Porn).
I think the point we're both trying to make is that the RR = doing it wrong.
Oh, yes, my point is that they're *absolutely* doing it wrong. And among the ways in which they are doing it wrong is in telling me that I am a bad person Because God Said So. Also in being creepy and way, WAY too interested in other people's sex lives. (Does "thou shalt not lie with man as with woman" actually just forbid bisexuals? Discuss. Although serious discussion requires going back to the Hebrew, since KJV is notoriously unreliable, and I can't read Hebrew.)
Oh, Song of Songs. It's fun to watch some people flail about it. "It's a metaphor! Really!" No, it's really, really not.
Mwah, you already know (some of) my very bizzare belief system and how I feel about this. Yeah. And I also hear you on the "oh god taxes oh god democrats oh god hueg government" but you know, the Republicans abandoned their creed of small government, support of small business, and not fucking around with commerce LONG ago. They feed hueg corporations and don't bother thinking about the common man. Given that? I'd much rather have the Democrats, who will tax us just as much as the Republicans but at least they might you know, do some damn good with the money. >>;
That said, I really really really want the Republican party to get its shit back together and remember republicans like, oh, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, and Teddy Roosevelt. You know, guys who _did good shit_.
I also am very optimistic about Obama, if only becuase DAMN does that man speak well. That speech? Fucking brilliant.
...you know, I wound up fighting with my mom over Prop 8, despite the fact that neither of us could vote on it. I didn't have the words to express what I wanted to say.
I think you've managed to find the words I need, and I agree completely with everything up there. Thank you.
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Trying to formulate a response. Fear the teal deer.
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I would have much more respect for the integrity and actual moral conviction of the Religious Right (henceforth referred to as RR) if there were a single pro-life group in favor of contraception, sex ed, birth control pills, and similar. I've met many individuals who are, but no groups. This only leads me to believe that, whatever they may say, the RR's base view is that sex is bad, women who have sex are bad, and those filthy sluts should be punished for having sex. When the same groups oppose government support for single mothers (you know, the ones they forbade from having abortions), and support legislation preventing gay couples or single people from adopting, the message I get is loud and clear.
On a perfectly basic level, it's kind of hard to not oppose people who hold as a basic tenet of their belief that I and many of my friends are going to Hell for no reason other than romantic and/or sexual interest in members of the same sex. I mean, really? Really? Even positing that Hell exists (Jewish doctrine does ( ... )
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I think the point we're both trying to make is that the RR = doing it wrong.
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Oh, Song of Songs. It's fun to watch some people flail about it. "It's a metaphor! Really!" No, it's really, really not.
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Yeah.
And I also hear you on the "oh god taxes oh god democrats oh god hueg government" but you know, the Republicans abandoned their creed of small government, support of small business, and not fucking around with commerce LONG ago. They feed hueg corporations and don't bother thinking about the common man. Given that? I'd much rather have the Democrats, who will tax us just as much as the Republicans but at least they might you know, do some damn good with the money. >>;
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They can take my money if things are actually gonna happen with it, instead of getting dumped into wars.
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I also am very optimistic about Obama, if only becuase DAMN does that man speak well. That speech? Fucking brilliant.
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So for now I'll just say "THIS, WORD, AMEN".
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I think you've managed to find the words I need, and I agree completely with everything up there. Thank you.
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