Gaudy Night - Chapters 3--4

[antisoppist]

Brief synopsis

Chapter 3

Last day of the Gaudy. Miss Lydgate is drowning in typefaces and really really needs the invention of WYSIWYG word processing for which she will have to wait another 60 years. That said, she would be the sort to cover the final pdf with last-minute changes in electronic sticky notes and still have DTP departments everywhere

Comments

[ibmiller]

Gaudy Night was the first (I think) Harriet book I read, so I was indeed rather perplexed at Peter's non-appearance for well over half the book. However, I loved Harriet immensely, so I didn't mind at all - in fact, I read it before Strong Poison, so when I went back to read that one, I was actually annoyed that she was in it so little

[antisoppist]

I read Gaudy Night, then Busman's Honeymoon, then Strong Poison and was also disappointed by the lack of Harriet in SP.

Thanks for reminding me of the short stories. I tend to skip them and there is more Peter information in them. I am bothered though that he expects Harriet to marry him when she still knows very little about him and it feels as though Sayers has suddenly realised this and is filling in gaps.

My mother was a teacher who married a farmer and became swallowed by the farm. This is why I am a feminist.

[littlered2]

There are a couple of troubles about dates for me - I'm still not entirely sure how everything that's supposed to have happened since Strong Poison is supposed to fit in the timespan, but that's mostly because I have no idea what term goes where on the calendar, being a Yank...

I'm not sure how much things have changed since the 30s, but currently Oxford terms are Michaelmas (early October to early December), Hilary (mid-January to mid-March) and Trinity (late April to late June). Terms are eight weeks long.

[ibmiller]

Thanks! That helps a lot, actually.

Aside from the terms, I've tried to figure out which Christmas Peter met Harriet before in SP - 1929, 1930, or 1931. Various sources say all three of those, and sometimes Sayers uses months instead of years to say how much time takes place between each book.

Plus, there's the horrible question of where Ali Baba happens - I'm inclined to say relatively shortly before SP, since that's the dating of the story I've read, and the characters talk about Peter being gone before (which is partly why Parker has gone so far after Harriet without Peter bringing him up short). But they don't quite act as if he'd been dead for a year and a half...

[wordfiend]

When I first read this book I kept wondering when Peter would show up. I also kept wondering when someone would die, so I was in suspense for most of the book.
As for the sunbathing in underwear, I would think that since it is a all-womens college that that might be considered more allowable. Especially since those robes sound like a bloody nuisance.
I think it is believable that he have never seen the inside of each other's flats-Peter is very much trying to keep a reasonable distance, but without ever going away. Also, I think (and if I am wrong please correct me) that it is implied in a couple of places that Peter could have seduced her if he wanted to. But in the end she would have resented him and he is holding out for the long-term.
I find their conversations and interactions in these chapters to be very revealing as to the nature of the relationship that has developed between them.

[jennyrad]

I've always assumed that a certain amount of unclothedness was less shocking than it would have been at my 1990s Durham college on account of the "inside enclosed walls, women only" element, but the whole Pagett (sp? botheration) et al thing has just dawned on me, so now I'm confused. WTF?

I think I already know what the dairy farmer's daughter's price rant must be, but I'm almost curious to ask for it, to check I'm on the right page, as it were.

[nineveh_uk]

When I was doing my masters a Swiss German student (who looked like Rupert Everett, but younger, more golden and glowing, and straight) used to sunbathe naked on the accommodation block roof. It was quite a shock to the person who first discovered this. I think we can assume that the knickers were what M&S would now sell as full briefs. Maybe the first years only had school swimming costumes and thought bras and pants were preferable? Though I feel Sayers misses a trick in not having Peter walk upon the scene

[antisoppist]

if she did, we would surely hear about it.
That is very true. But I wish she did. Why are meals OK but Christmas presents not?

I can see that Peter thinks he needs to "give her space", or whatever the 1930s equivalent was, and that flats have Connotations, but they get on well when they are scouring beaches, plotting alibis and cracking codes together in HHC and it's a pity that otherwise they are limited to these formal outings that don't seem all that successful. For years.

The fact that Harriet's rooms in HHC don't count also occurred to me in the middle of the night.

[lsellersfic]

Why are meals OK but Christmas presents not?

Off the top of my head it's because Peter gets Harriet's company out of a meal (which he wouldn't otherwise) while he gets nothing from a Christmas present. Harriet's attitudes to her meals with Peter, IIRC, are very complex but there's definitely a sense that she perceives them as something she does for him.

[nineveh_uk]

Meals seem to count as hospitality, requiring no reciprocation - presents otherwise. (And I think at the period giving a woman a present generally presumes a relationship - hence that Harriet doesn't just say no thanks politely, but writes a "stinging rebuke".)

[littlered2]

I can't imagine students sunbathing in their underwear at my Oxford college (well, I can, but it's a fairly unpleasant thought and I assume it would lead to horror on the part of passers-by). It is, admittedly, mixed-sex - I assume the all-women aspect of Shrewsbury would mitigate things a bit (although Padgett! And visitors! *imagines Lord St-George stumbling across sunbathing undergraduates in a state of undress, and is somewhat disturbed* We get tourists trooping in and out of our college all the time, and they would probably horrified - a group came in just as the annual tradition of "pouring custard over someone's head for charity" was going on and looked suitable shocked).

Re. the handkerchiefs in sleeves, looking at the descriptions of Oxford MA gowns online and trying vainly to understand them (I am the proud owner of a Commoners' Gown; we don't even get sleeves), is t the case that the arm leaves the sleeve at the elbow and the lower portion (which has its end closed) just hangs? So I can see the appeal, as whatever's in the

[nineveh_uk]

and required Peter to intervene in order to protect her dignity

But how is Peter supposed to find the napkin/bag when he's got his eyes shut to avoid looking up H's skirt ;-)

[littlered2]

I'd suggest just fumbling around blindly, but that could end up doing more harm than good ...

[nineveh_uk]

'Peter,' said Harriet in icy tones, 'why is your hand on my ankle?'