Random thought of the day: is comic fanfic less interesting than angst?

[teasel]

There's a terrific children's book by James Thurber called The Thirteen Clocks, unfortunately now long out of print, which includes among its many wonders a character whose tears turn into jewels. A useful and valuable trait, and one that would make the production of angst fics such a vital contribution to the gross national product that fanfic

Comments

[myladylyssa]

Teasel, I love your thought-provking essays. Sadly, my lunch break is over now, so I can't write much else. But before I return to work I will say that for me good angst fanfic touches the soul while good comedy fanfic delights and tickles the intellect. I love both, but I am an angsty girl at heart. But oh, give me wonderfully witty and intelligent comic fanfic to satisfy me, too!

Thanks for the food to occupy my mind for the rest of the workday!

*vainly resists urge to read others' comments instead of working*

[teasel]

for me good angst fanfic touches the soul while good comedy fanfic delights and tickles the intellect.This is a really interesting distinction! I wonder: if comedy is something that works on the intellect, does that mean it's inherently a bit more distant from our feelings than something that works on the soul, as you put it? When I hear the world "intellect" I usually think of it as a way of apprehending the world that is somewhat analytical and that holds whatever it is you're thinking about at arm's length, so to speak

[abby_normal]

You’ll forgive me if I would prefer to cling to that last sentence and not think too deeply on the rest. Not that all of this isn’t profoundly worthy of consideration and reflection, but I don’t think that I, personally, need these questions answered for myself. Let me focus on this for a moment:

I'm saying that for me, personally, as a writer, I just feel I've done less when I've written comedy than when I've dived into the Dark Pit of Angst and emerged trailing weeping readers in my wake. And I'm kind of wondering why this should be the case.

I have had comments on both sides of the fence on this subject. ‘I love your angst but your humour always makes me laugh,’ is, of course, a polite way of someone telling me that I should stick to what I do best and, in their opinion, humour is what I do best. But I also get, ‘This is funny but I don’t know why you waste your time on it when your angst is so good.’ And you know what? The first never even gives me pause but the last never fails to piss me off

[abby_normal]

cont'd...

I think of him laughing that rolling, throaty laugh that never failed to make those around him join in. I think of him swearing colorfully at the birds that used his just-waxed car for target practice and then the surprise on his face when he turned to see me giggling at him. I think of him trying out his latest Polish joke on my very Polish grandmother and tweaking the feigned scowl from her face with a cheeky grin and a peck on the nose.

These are the things that are important to me, these are the things that I burn into my memory. They are the first things that pop into my mind when someone says the word ‘grandfather’ and they always, always make me smile fondly in remembrance. More importantly, I am convinced that these are the things he would want me to remember

[teasel]

Thank you for a lovely post! I especially love what you say about your grandfather. He sounds like a great guy! It's wonderful that you can cherish the warm, happy memories of him rather than the sad ones. :)

I’ve never had anyone quote to me from memory a line from any of my angst fics but I’ve had plenty of one-liners from my humour fics lobbed at me at unexpected momentsI've also found that quick humor fics sometimes get a more immediate reaction than angst fics do -- and since for me, as for you, humor is much easier to write, this sometimes is a bit puzzling to me. So, are you wasting your time putting all that effort into the angst? Well, no. First -- one of the interesting things about this thread is the diversity of people's response, both as writers and as readers, to comedy and angst. Most people have quite rightly reminded me that the two are best when mixed, and that life or fic without one or the other would be poor indeed. Second, however: most people seem to have a temperamental inclination one way or another

Re: Comedy

[eykar]

Good comedy, even parody, is hard to write. It requires a light touch and a deep sense of the absurdity inherent in even the most serious human events - such as Terry Pratchett manages book after book. The characters are exaggerated and the events impossible, but the underlying human(oid) story makes sense. (The same could be said of LoTR, couldn't it?)

One reason that most LoTR parody falls flat for me is that it just isn't that good. On the other hand, I have read some very funny hobbit stories that had nothing to do with LoTR.

I suspect that part of the popularity of angst is that, like porn, it is easy to write by formula, using stock characters and phrases recombined with a modicum of tweaking. However nothing wears faster than a tired joke.

Yours in the eternal quest for a good laugh, I remain, etc.

Re: Comedy

[teasel]

It requires a light touch and a deep sense of the absurdity inherent in even the most serious human events - such as Terry Pratchett manages book after book.I totally agree about Terry Pratchett -- he's an interesting case of humor that exists side by side with a deep empathy for his characters. Pratchett manages this at least in part with some interesting shifts in point of view -- some sections of the books, often the ones with the most jokes, are from the POV of an omniscient narrator who is somewhat distant from the characters. Other sections though are from the POV of a deeply sympathetic if flawed character -- Sam Vines and Granny Weatherwax spring to mind (and so does Death, though he's a more complicated case). In the case of Sam Vines and Granny Weatherwax, at least, we laugh at the characters' foibles now and again, but they are in the long run definitely not figures of fun, and Pratchett's endings have the incredible kick they do because we end up completely and unproblematically sympathizing with the POV characters as

Re: Comedy

[eykar]

> the struggle in question is usually against some villain with whom we are NOT invited to sympathize, and this villain and many of the minor characters are subjected to a great deal of comic poking

Perhaps that's one reason that LoTR comedy is rather difficult. It's a rare gift to be able to make fun of absolute evil without trivializing it to the point that heroic effort is no longer required to vanquish it.

[ex_fennelsee804]

Ooh, interesting! I've pondered those questions myself, naturally, as one who started fanfic in the pure comedy realm, and slid over into angst partly out of pride - I felt like people wouldn't know I could "really" write unless I wrote something "serious."

However, there's more to comedy than just the lightweight fare (and I'd definitely count "At the Rivendell Internet Cafe," "The Two Prettiest," "A Strange Ghost Indeed," and "The Cybersex Lives of Hobbits" as lightweight fare!). While I love parody and being able to lighten up a heavy subject at times, the stories I actually love best - not just in fanfic but in novels in general - are the ones that brilliantly alternate devastating scenes with hilarious scenes. The novels of John Irving come to mind. For that is really what life's like: both heartbreaking and funny. In my own opinion, my best stories are the ones that have that mix, which are neither my funniest nor my angstiest.

But I'm happy to have pleased the fans of either extreme, in some fic or another. :-)

[serai1]

Well, I for one have always appreciated your writings because of your talent with humor, fennelseed! I'm in awe of your light touch, and your ability to blend a laugh with a tear, or to lighten an otherwise sad situation. You take this ability into very subtle places, where a situation is serious and could slide into tragedy, but doesn't, and rather moves towards a lighter conclusion. It's quite amazing to experience, as a reader, and frankly fills me with rank jealousy.

Oh, and I love the porn, too. You really are awfully good at that, as well. ;)

[ex_fennelsee804]

Thank you, my dear! No need to be jealous - it's all due to my innate cowardice in facing devastating endings; and anyway, you're wondrously talented yourself.

Heh heh...the porn, yes, well...I'd like to say it played no part in my interest in fanfic, but um...yeah, it's practically all I'm interested in. :-D

[teasel]

I like very much what you say here about the range of different kinds of comedy. Certainly there's a big leap between an article in "The Onion" and a John Irving novel. The Onion article is out to make a satiric point, often a very sharp one. The Irving novel has a more complex structure that is more about mimesis than polemics -- that is, it's emulating the life's tragicomic crazy quilt, and harnessing its comic aggression WITHIN character studies and plots that themselves are after something deeper

[22by7]

At the risk of subconsciously paraphrasing some writer or the other, tragedy and angst seem to be on the side of art, as in what should be/should have been, while comedy is a truer reflection of life just as it is.

I like reading humour, but I don't think I necessarily mean the more obvious funny -- the best comedy is probably the cruel, aggressive kind that makes me laugh and then makes me guilty, not for being silly but for finding it humorous at all.

Oh dear. That didn't make any sense, did it? :[

[22by7]

OK, concrete example: Ted Hughes' book 'Crow'. It's really tragicomic, though. And poetry.

squees Ted