Wonderful post! Well said! I share your every single sentiment about this, and I have to admit I envy your ability to articulate these issues so clearly.
"[Bangel reunion] will be a big thing, but wasn't Spike and Buffy seeing each other for the first time in years, their "reunion" a big thing too? Obviously not."
Grr argh!!! There's no words to describe how much this infuriates me. I will never get over the huge disappointment of the non-existent Spuffy reunion, and the 'crazy studly' knife to the gut. The mere thought about a Big Bangel Reunion Extravaganza pisses me off. And it will happen. Sadly there's no doubt about that.
"They didn't want to take that route. Instead we get what we got and it's pretty...well not pretty. They reduced their dynamic to a simple one. A boring one."There's an abundance of interesting directions that the plot would've gone (I'm not talking just about Spuffy here). There's so many different types of interesting dynamics between characters that they could've explored. There's so many interesting ways
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Thank you! Honestly I hoped I was understandable, my writing has gone down hill lately, so I'm glad it came across okay.
I will never get over the huge disappointment of the non-existent Spuffy reunion, and the 'crazy studly' knife to the gut.
If this hadn't happened and they had a proper epic reunion I think I could have stomached a bangel reunion. Now? It just sickens me because all I see is bias, bias, bias.
There's an abundance of interesting directions that the plot would've gone (I'm not talking just about Spuffy here)...snip
Word, word, word to everything in this paragraph. They are either playing it so safe they made it boring by default or are completely clueless on how to deal with any character that isn't Angel...even then they Gary Sue Angel, which is horrible for the Angel character. They've reduced Angel's own complexities by making everything he does heroic, even killing Giles.
This makes me so sad. I hate it when these comics affect our enjoyment of what came before.It's gotten better, believe me! Just the
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I've come to the conclusion that the comics are like the opposing party's national convention (if you're a Democrat, it's like the Republican National Convention, and vice versa). You don't agree with anything that's being said, keep up with it mostly for the train wreck, and know the guy they'll eventually nominate is a moron and everyone backing him is an idiot.
If they make a big fucking deal with the Bangel reunion, if they have Buffy forgive Angel, I'll finally send that letter on my hard drive where I call Allie an idiot. and present a paper on why the comics suck at a conference.
I still believe in the beauty of Spuffy in the show, though the comics have made it harder to do so.
I wish I could enjoy it like you do! I hurt when I see idiots, though I am aware that I can be an idiot at times too. The problems comes when there is no moderation or not having a person on the team telling you you are being an idiot and to stop. But working in the comics industry, I found out that everyone has egos the size of mountains and saying one word of criticism only makes them not listen to you even harder, shutting you down and not take any suggestion, no matter how good or sensible, in to consideration. (Which brings me to another rant, my crushed dreams of being a comic book writer and how my future plans have changed...that's for another day
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Okay, now for my disagreements. First, there's this: it's like watching the same person get with themselvesI actually don't think Spike and Faith are like the same character. Most of their similarities are external; internally Spike is MUCH more like Buffy than Faith. The similarities between Spike and Buffy show in their external behavior, too; it's just not as immediately apparent as the Spike/Faith similarities. So I'm not opposed to ships where the characters have similar personalities, or I wouldn't ship Spuffy. What matters is the way those similarities come together:do they complement each other or do they blend too much and stagnate? With S/F, while they aren't as alike as they seem, they do *appear* the same. They may be alike more on the outside than the inside, but it's their outside behavior that affects our impression of them and how they interact. Even if the similarities are superficial, they *look* too similar, and that makes for a bland ship. I like them as friends, but I don't like shipping
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Now, about Chosen. I still fully believe Buffy really loved Spike(though I don't mind if you don't see it that way). She wouldn't have such a hard time getting the words out if it wasn't authentic, and what would be the point of flaming hands symbolism if she didn't mean it
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I know the comics portray her feelings for Spike very differently from the show, and for a while it caused me to look at Spuffy in the show differently, too. I no longer do, though, because of what I said earlier about seeing the comics as just a fun pet project for Joss rather than a true continuation given the same serious artistic attention he approached the show with. What I think happened is this: Joss really did intent for Spuffy to be the love story we thought we saw, he just didn't want to continue the story beyond S7. He doesn't want to write about Buffy being happy and in a healthy relationship; that bores him. So he fully meant for Buffy to love Spike, but that was supposed to be the last season. When he later decided to continue the story in comics, he had to backpedal and pretend S7 basically didn't happen so he didn't have to write about Spuffy in a way that was natural for where they left off. He doesn't have a problem reuniting Bangel because he never intended that ship to go anywhere in the first place, it's just a
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Again, you make sense to me. It does sound like that may have happened. I just hate that we don't have anything to tell us what is what. I can see that Joss may have wanted to have the love story he intended in season 7 but his thoughtlessness in some of his decisions really, I believe, hurt it.
For season 8 to be canon to Joss (which the more I think about it the more I think it was just a fun romp for Joss and to get out ideas he wanted to do that just didn't feel right otherwise. Like he wanted to get bander "off his chest") you'd have to try to reconcile season 7. And it make-y no sense-y in any sort of natural way. But yeah, I can agree with lots in that first paragraph.
The thing is, even if it's fan service, he put it in. It derailed the spuffy arc for me. I think it was too thoughtless and too much because it served no narrative purpose unless it was to cast doubt on Buffy's feelings for Spike. This is one of the things I think Joss' brain skipped town on, because he thought on too superficial level without actually thinking
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Comments 42
"[Bangel reunion] will be a big thing, but wasn't Spike and Buffy seeing each other for the first time in years, their "reunion" a big thing too? Obviously not."
Grr argh!!! There's no words to describe how much this infuriates me. I will never get over the huge disappointment of the non-existent Spuffy reunion, and the 'crazy studly' knife to the gut. The mere thought about a Big Bangel Reunion Extravaganza pisses me off. And it will happen. Sadly there's no doubt about that.
"They didn't want to take that route. Instead we get what we got and it's pretty...well not pretty. They reduced their dynamic to a simple one. A boring one."There's an abundance of interesting directions that the plot would've gone (I'm not talking just about Spuffy here). There's so many different types of interesting dynamics between characters that they could've explored. There's so many interesting ways ( ... )
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I will never get over the huge disappointment of the non-existent Spuffy reunion, and the 'crazy studly' knife to the gut.
If this hadn't happened and they had a proper epic reunion I think I could have stomached a bangel reunion. Now? It just sickens me because all I see is bias, bias, bias.
There's an abundance of interesting directions that the plot would've gone (I'm not talking just about Spuffy here)...snip
Word, word, word to everything in this paragraph. They are either playing it so safe they made it boring by default or are completely clueless on how to deal with any character that isn't Angel...even then they Gary Sue Angel, which is horrible for the Angel character. They've reduced Angel's own complexities by making everything he does heroic, even killing Giles.
This makes me so sad. I hate it when these comics affect our enjoyment of what came before.It's gotten better, believe me! Just the ( ... )
Reply
If they make a big fucking deal with the Bangel reunion, if they have Buffy forgive Angel, I'll finally send that letter on my hard drive where I call Allie an idiot. and present a paper on why the comics suck at a conference.
I still believe in the beauty of Spuffy in the show, though the comics have made it harder to do so.
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Okay, now for my disagreements. First, there's this:
it's like watching the same person get with themselvesI actually don't think Spike and Faith are like the same character. Most of their similarities are external; internally Spike is MUCH more like Buffy than Faith. The similarities between Spike and Buffy show in their external behavior, too; it's just not as immediately apparent as the Spike/Faith similarities. So I'm not opposed to ships where the characters have similar personalities, or I wouldn't ship Spuffy. What matters is the way those similarities come together:do they complement each other or do they blend too much and stagnate? With S/F, while they aren't as alike as they seem, they do *appear* the same. They may be alike more on the outside than the inside, but it's their outside behavior that affects our impression of them and how they interact. Even if the similarities are superficial, they *look* too similar, and that makes for a bland ship. I like them as friends, but I don't like shipping ( ... )
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For season 8 to be canon to Joss (which the more I think about it the more I think it was just a fun romp for Joss and to get out ideas he wanted to do that just didn't feel right otherwise. Like he wanted to get bander "off his chest") you'd have to try to reconcile season 7. And it make-y no sense-y in any sort of natural way. But yeah, I can agree with lots in that first paragraph.
The thing is, even if it's fan service, he put it in. It derailed the spuffy arc for me. I think it was too thoughtless and too much because it served no narrative purpose unless it was to cast doubt on Buffy's feelings for Spike. This is one of the things I think Joss' brain skipped town on, because he thought on too superficial level without actually thinking ( ... )
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I hope you got some oomph too! ;)
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