Interesting conversation day

[tyblazitar]

At school today, I had a small discussion with a couple of people from my class about the hot topic in Norway these days, whether or not Muslim policewomen should be allowed to wear their hijab at work. It was nice getting more perspective on the matter, but I still don't think there are any good arguments against it

Comments

[heika_sama]

Oh, political conversations. They can be nice every now and then (when you're not discussing with idiots :D). Though I must admit I haven't really followed the hijab in the police-case.

Hope you have a nice "last dinner". o/

[lothair]

Arguments against hijab-use for police women: The police is either a secular or a Christian institution (seeing as the official religion in Norway is Christianity), and the police uniform is a symbol of the institution, not an item of clothing. Therefore one should not be allowed to mix religious symbols (which the hijab certainly has become after all of the controversies around it in the last decades) with the symbol of the secular/Christian institution. Of course, this also means that Mormons, Jews, etc. shouldn't be allowed to wear their religious imagery whilst in uniform, which I believe that they do today. However, this is an argument against the wearing of these symbols, not an argument for the wearing of new symbols.

[tyblazitar]

Those were the exact arguments I heard too. First of all, I do not consider the hijab a religious symbol as much as a cultural one, as there are muslims who aren't required to wear it, and non-muslims who choose to wear it. Besides, the hijab was around long before Islam

[lothair]

Well, if you see it as a cultural symbol then my arguments don't stick. However, just last year or the year before that there was a huge debate in Turkey when the Prime Minister's wife wore a hijab at an official ceremony. Turkey probably has one of the most secular institutions in the world, and a large minority of the Turkish population saw the hijab as a religious symbol. Of course, the Muslim world is just as large and diverse as the Christian world, and attitudes to the hijab is different in Somalia, Pakistan and Lebanon. I guess I mean that it is enough that 25% of practicing Muslims believe the hijab is a religious symbol for the hijab to actually become a religious symbol

[tyblazitar]

"Turkey probably has one of the most secular institutions in the world, and a large minority of the Turkish population saw the hijab as a religious symbol."

I assume you meant "majority" rather than "minority", yes? :p

I certainly see reason in your arguments. However, I believe that in allowing the police to use hijabs, the hijab will perhaps be weakened as a religious symbol.

And while I thoroughly agree on the secularized state, I see allowing hijab in the police more like a way of saying "we will allow people of all religions and cultures in our country". The police, or the state in general should not actively promote or support any one religion as an institution, but to disallow individuals in their service to wear anything that might reveal their religious affiliation is too much, in my opinion.

[nazguruloki]

What comes first, religion or moral?

The problem is that most religious individuals see them as one and the same. While the law that the police are supposed to enforce, stems from the idea of a secular moral.

How can you enforce such a secular law, if religion is so important to you that you got to keep the symbol with you as a law enforcer?

But I suppose the ones with that attitude won't apply for the job in the first place. For the women in question, it's got to be more of a cultural thing, as you say.

I say, design a police hijab that is unlike any hijab used privately. Make it clear that the police hijab is merely a means of including individuals who can't do their job properly without one, out of habit. And make it look tough and authority-ish, and blend it in with the uniform.

[tyblazitar]

"But I suppose the ones with that attitude won't apply for the job in the first place."

Agreed. :p

And sure, it could work to design a police hijab, like IKEA, among others, have already done. But if they wear a police hat on top of the hijab, does it really matter?

[nazguruloki]

The uniform is important, so I'd say it's got to be a specific police hijab as long as it's visible. I don't suppose the police would allow any other kind of cloth that's not part of the uniform, symbol or no.

[tyblazitar]

Sure, if it's very visible. Yes, that would be a compromise I could very well live with (or, not exactly a huge compromise, but at least a solution of sorts).

[sandhatten]

Yup, that conversation was interesting. Too bad we didn't discuss the hijab-controversy, though. But it's settled anyway, since a large majority is against it. So now FrP's talking about "snikislamisering". XD

And yeah, we have to hang out sometime soon. :D

[tyblazitar]

Doesn't FrP always talk about that? :p I discussed the matter with my granparents and uncle today, obvious FrP-ers, and wow, the ignorance hurt. D:

That do we! I have moving and work and stuff this week, but we'll probably find a day or something.

[sandhatten]

I'm sure we will. At least we have the Outland-gaming on Thursday.