How far?

[visgoth]

CNN.com's current QuickVote is Do you agree with President Obama that Muslims have "the right to build a place of worship" near Ground Zero?
48 percent of current respondants say "No

Comments

[skreidle]

a) Need to reslash the blockquote closure.

b) I was just reading a post very similar to this (if more verbose) yesterday: Legitimate Questions for Sarah Palin. I fully agree with both you and Mr. Kaufman.

c) This post isn't public, at the moment.

[visgoth]

A & C - the Livejournal app for Windows Mobile is a piece of shit.

[sgtkane]

I love to hate CNN's polls. I really do, they are slated to get the results that some editor somewhere wants.

Most everyone I've spoken with believes that Muslims have the right to build a place of worship near ground zero, just that it’s a pretty pathetic and antagonistic thing to do. CNN doesn't ask that however, they ask if there is a right to do so.

Now if those of us who believe there is a right, but that it’s a pretty insulting thing to do answer "Yes" to the poll then CNN spins it as "see the majority aren't opposed to the mosque" while if we answer "No" we are bigoted morons.

As for denying property rights don't forget that owners of the land where United Airlines Flight 93 crashed were forced to sell because it was the "right thing to do".

And yeah, your post still isn't public.

Edited because I can't spell while getting kids ready for school

[9thmoon]

I love to hate CNN's polls. I really do, they are slated to get the results that some editor somewhere wants.

As are all polls, everywhere, really.

Now if those of us who believe there is a right, but that it’s a pretty insulting thing to do answer "Yes" to the poll then CNN spins it as "see the majority aren't opposed to the mosque" while if we answer "No" we are bigoted morons.

Yeah, it's a bitch, having ethics that include tolerance for others and respect for other peoples' rights, even when you don't like the people in question or how they might utilize those rights. Puts one in difficult positions quite frequently.

[visgoth]

I generally don't answer CNN's polls because they usually don't have an answer I can abide. But I sometimes look at the results and then go to the story and read the comments.

The entry is public now... I told the LJ app for my phone to make it public, but it is some of the worst software I've had the displeasure of using, so I couldn't tell it hadn't until I got home. Sadly, the app is still better than how Google renders LJ on my phone. I'm going to get a better phone before too much longer.

[skreidle]

Well, if your LJ.com settings are to default to Friends Only, that'll override any less-secure setting from a remote client.

[caramida]

Hear Hear!

Also, I quoted you. Thank you for putting together the sentiment that I've been trying but failing to come up with on my own.

[visgoth]

partywhipple was instrumental in assisting me in putting it into words.

[ravenblack]

Another complaint with the poll. Do I have a right to build a place of worship near Ground Zero?

Obviously I don't, because I don't own property there, the right to build whatever you want wherever you want isn't a right anyone has.

So a better question would be "do Muslims who own property near Ground Zero have a right to build a place of worship there?"

To which the answer is "probably not, do they have planning permission to build such a thing? Is their property zoned for it?"

So a better question would be "do Muslims who own property near Ground Zero that is zoned appropriately for building a place of worship and already has approved planning permission for building a place of worship on it have the right to build a place of worship within those approved specifications on that property?"

And then the answer is "duh".

[ravenblack]

An alternative question that might better fit the intent of the poll would be, if they don't already have approved planning permission, "given that a different religion in the same circumstances would get their request for planning permission to build an equivalent place of worship on an equivalent property near Ground Zero approved, should planning permission for a Mosque be granted to Muslims making this equivalent request? And we mean this question (legally/morally/ethically depending on what answer is desired)"

But I suppose saying "HEY THIS IS THE WAY WE ARE BIASED" in your poll might be a little too obvious. Even more too obvious.

[visgoth]

I'll give them a bit of flex based on the benefit of keeping the question short (i.e., people will actually read it). I'm willing to allow that "do you agree with President Obama..." encompasses his stipulation that the rights are subject to local laws and ordinances.

It really baffles me that somehow a statement that equates to "the government cannot arbitrarily deprive citizens of their rights," is somehow equated with "I think it is a good idea for them to do this." Obama specifically avoided commenting on if the facility should or should not be built, yet his statement that people's rights must be protected is taken as wrong-headed by the very people who were screaming our rights would be destroyed in a rain of fire and doom should Obama be elected.

[ravenblack]

Yeah, but "do Muslims have the right" is an outrageous form of the question, as shown by my first example - nobody outright has the right to build something near Ground Zero, there's a whole bunch of prerequisites. I would answer no to the question as asked, and I have no special objection to Muslims or 9/11-related things.

The short form of the question (with the answers reversed) that isn't totally stupid might be "should Muslims be denied the right to build a Mosque on their legally owned property near Ground Zero?"

[ehintz]

Our primary news source these days is Daily Show and Colbert. We've been watching this idiocy with a mixture of amusement, sadness, shock, resignation, and gratitude that it's not the NZ population looking like jackasses.

Sam takes it a bit harder than I do, she really gets quite upset about it. I'm more cynically unsurprised and glad to be a kiwi. Unbelievable what crazy levels of hypocrisy Fox is capable of.