yeah, i see how things like that affect people. a friend of mine who had to give up her life in touring bands. she hates the father, and he told her he hoped she would die giving birth. another: a friend who goes hungry a lot, because she can only afford to feed either her daughter or herself. she has no idea who the dad is, because she was raped in a parking lot.
while i don't necessarily support abortion, i also come from an anti-procreation view. i'm also more realistic about this than i used to be (funny how not believing in the 'soul' changes the equation quite remarkably), and i realize how complicated the situation is. i often think people will find themselves better off in terms of life-goals having abortions than achieving them having an unplanned/unwanted child
something that also worries me is that in many of these cases its just a perpetuation of a cycle, a grandmother who had children with a man that was absent - and a mother who has attracted a succession of shitty men in her life and had five children with a few of them.
at some point someone has to say "this is enough" and decide not to keep the cycle going.
to be honest, i think it's extremely frustrating when a guy "advises" a womyn to have an abortion, or tells her that she doesn't know what she's getting into if she carries our her pregnancy- because they don't know. maybe you think you know from watching your friends or hearing stories, but you're not a womyn and the choice will never be up to you. the least you can do is support her decision, that's the whole concept of being pro-choice (which is not synonymous with pro-abortion). a womyn does not need to have a man in her life to support a child- i thought you of all people might know that by now. oh, patriarchy.
i don't think giving advice (or bringing up information that a friend may be overlooking in making her decision) is inherently patriarchal. especially when the individual is seeking input. i wouldn't be much of a friend if i just blew it off and said "do whatever you think is best" when they are having a tough time making a decision. it is as possible for men to have valuable input in a situation. i find it pretty ridiculous to think that just because one is male that it invalidates any possibility of intelligent thought, or having any kind of valuable input
( ... )
also i think maybe i worded things a little wrong in the OP.
i have never said to her, "you should get an abortion." i have told her that if it was me that is what i would do, and have made sure she is getting concrete information, not just the fluff that many of our friends are giving her.
Just curious... Do I know her at all? Honestly...I have been through this same thing. If she needs someone to talk to (not saying that you, being a guy friend, is a bad choice, but I do know what she's going through and what her choices are)...Please let me know. I mean, obviously, I work at Planned Parenthood, but here's a nice little fact: it now costs $1.5 million (yes, that's MILLION) on average to raise a child from start to the time they finish school. Does she want to make that investment?
and p.s...What Kurt is doing is NOT patriarchy. To allhope aside--most white men would love to tell this girl that she DOESN'T have a choice in this matter--look at our current politicians at every level, state and federal. They would love to take away her right to have one. Just throwing that out there.
I agree with this completely. It's a big part of the reason I absolutely hated the book Cunt.
In any case, whatever your friend chooses (ahh, the right to choose! And what a wonderful right it is!), hopefully she'll have friends and family - including, my goodness!, men in her life - who support her. I think you gave her some valid advice that perhaps she didn't want to hear or no one else would've told her. I don't see the difference in a male or a female advising her of the option, but it's certainly an idea worth considering if she can't afford the million dollars Ashley mentioned.
I'd say more but, frankly, I think I'd grow redundant.
i understand where her point is coming from, though i disagree.
but at base my whole point was to supply information that she might not have (and many people don't) consider as part of the process of making this decision.
i'm a big fan of having as much information as possible before making life-altering decisions.
I think coming from the perspective of a person who's actually had an abortion, I can say that no one person can influence a woman on what to do. It's such a huge decision and when you're the one actually dealing with it, and it's very isolating. You hear what people are saying, but ultimately it's your inner voice that will guide you in the end. No one but her will know deep down what her most secret hopes and fears are for herself and her future.
By providing her an alternative viewpoint, you're doing a good thing. I think it'll speak even more to whether or not you're a true friend to her if you can still find it in yourself to support her if she chooses not to take your advice.
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while i don't necessarily support abortion, i also come from an anti-procreation view. i'm also more realistic about this than i used to be (funny how not believing in the 'soul' changes the equation quite remarkably), and i realize how complicated the situation is. i often think people will find themselves better off in terms of life-goals having abortions than achieving them having an unplanned/unwanted child
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at some point someone has to say "this is enough" and decide not to keep the cycle going.
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i have never said to her, "you should get an abortion." i have told her that if it was me that is what i would do, and have made sure she is getting concrete information, not just the fluff that many of our friends are giving her.
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Do I know her at all?
Honestly...I have been through this same thing. If she needs someone to talk to (not saying that you, being a guy friend, is a bad choice, but I do know what she's going through and what her choices are)...Please let me know. I mean, obviously, I work at Planned Parenthood, but here's a nice little fact: it now costs $1.5 million (yes, that's MILLION) on average to raise a child from start to the time they finish school.
Does she want to make that investment?
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In any case, whatever your friend chooses (ahh, the right to choose! And what a wonderful right it is!), hopefully she'll have friends and family - including, my goodness!, men in her life - who support her. I think you gave her some valid advice that perhaps she didn't want to hear or no one else would've told her. I don't see the difference in a male or a female advising her of the option, but it's certainly an idea worth considering if she can't afford the million dollars Ashley mentioned.
I'd say more but, frankly, I think I'd grow redundant.
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but at base my whole point was to supply information that she might not have (and many people don't) consider as part of the process of making this decision.
i'm a big fan of having as much information as possible before making life-altering decisions.
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By providing her an alternative viewpoint, you're doing a good thing. I think it'll speak even more to whether or not you're a true friend to her if you can still find it in yourself to support her if she chooses not to take your advice.
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