Ok, this has been dwelling obsessively on my mind for a couple days now...

[porn_into_this]

But I don't believe people who say they date FTM's or MTF's and respect them as their identified gender, but could never date the 'cis' version because they hate cock or pussy. I just don't buy it. This idea that hey, boys are really hot, but sperm just turns me off too much so I date my local transguy... Eh, seriously? If somebody would like to

Comments

[quiregrrl]

I can only speak for myself, as a dyke/queer-identified woman who is attracted to certain transguys and has had several relationships with transguys, but is not particularly attracted to cisguys.

I can't honestly say that I would never date cisguys, but I've been there and done that and in all honesty the likelihood of me ever going back to factory-standard men is so small as to be barely acknowledgeable (I mean, if a hot gay leather Daddy with a thick cock, a good sense of humour, passionate queer politics, a decent job, financial independence, and impeccable manners said "how about it?" I'd totally be there, but let's face it, he'd be talking to the gay guy behind me, wouldn't he

[porn_into_this]

I understand what you are talking about but I don't think that it was what I questioning. You seem to be talking about wanting to date people who ID as queer or genderqueer. Which cis-men can as well, and I understand how it's less likely for queer women to date queer cis-guys because they may have a tendency to prefer the company of other men. But you put it right there, genitals don't define gender, so if you wanna date queer trans-men I don't understand why you wouldn't be open to hitting it to queer cis-men as well. I think lack of opportunity is different than outright dismissal, which I hear a lot of people talking about.

I don't really mean to be attacking, and I'm aware my tone could be such, so I apologize. I am feeling really frustrated with this and I'm not sure why it is pulling such a chord but it is.

[quiregrrl]

Yeah, even as i was typing I was wondering if I was actually answering your question or not...

I'm feeling your frustration, but don't worry I ain't taking it personally or feeling attacked :)

I should have said upfront, but I'll do it now... I don't have the answers, I only know what makes sense to me...

Ok, so we agree that gender is not defined by genitals. Good starting point.

What does define gender then? I'm not sure that I can adequately articulate it, and I suspect that it's a bit different for everyone anyway... but whatever it is, there is a difference between cismale and transmale genders, in my experience and opinion. So yeah, you're right in that I am attracted to queers, but queer is not a gender, except when it is, and when it is then yeah i'm attracted to it, but if a mans gender is cismale, then regardless of how queer (in the non-gender sense) he is I don't find him particularly attractive. It's not about the genitals, and it's not because his gender-identity is more or less than any other gender-identity, it

[porn_into_this]

Yes, it does if you are attracted to only certain genders of trans-men as well. Not all transmen are gender fluid, I am not for example - although certainly by my appearance and some of my behavior people might assume otherwise. But if you would be as unlikely to date a transsexual male as a cis-male, then I could understand that.

[deusabscondidum]

I think it might be true for some people, but that those cases would be very few, and that it is very iffy when someone says things like this. I know someone who is a lesbian, likes cock, but doesn't like the cis men often attached to them. She has said she would have sex with a cis man if he were like a woman (She wasn't referring to transwomen or genderqueers, just cismen.)

I'd say this kind of thing should be taken on a case by case basis, but in general, it can be called fucked up.

[deusabscondidum]

Which is why she probably wouldn't go with them either.

[mresundance]

It's a contradiction to say "I don't date men" and then uh, date transMEN. I think that line of thinking, of mandatorily separating transmen from other men, is borderline transphobic and equates trans with "other".

Albeit, there are always exceptions to the rule. But generally, I find people who wouldn't date cisguys but will date transguys to be off-putting and frankly creepy. It's creepy that they would like me, but had I been born with a penis, wouldn't. And let's pretend the only thing that really changes in this scenario is my genitals, since I am genderqueer.

In this scenario, genitals do actually mean an awful lot, since they seem to be the only qualifier for certain people being attracted to me.

Generally I find that whole attitude creepy and fucked up, just like you do.

[static_hiss]

Gotta love the biphobia mixed in with the transphobia when cis lesbians say they don't date men (read: cis men = all men) but do date trans men.

[mresundance]

it's like when one hears of a ftm chaser who keeps dating total misogynist trans male assholes, but believing them to be special, gentle, decafe, feminist, snowflake "TRANSGUYS"--who's fooling who?

But denial is a river in Egypt! Really!

[mresundance]

Santa Claus is also real, dude. *nods solemnly*

[porn_into_this]

Oh my god I love teen girl squad, that's amazing.

If there are angry transguys who don't mind getting fetishized that is fine, but a few people from a group saying that they don't mind dodgy shit doesn't negate the behavior being dodgy.

[static_hiss]

That is AMAZING.