This was a stellar episode. They sent Jo and Ellen off with such respect. No arguing that they shouldn't sacrifice themselves. Actually, thinking about it, that acceptance of sacrifice between the two boys didn't happen until Swan Song. And even then, I think Dean was able to accept Sam's sacrifice thinking that he would be dead himself in moments from the beating.
I agree that the teasing about Sam trusting a demon was a sign that the boys were past that. I remember being really struck by those lines on the initial watching, that they were significant.
One other bit you didn't mention--when Dean does shoot Lucifer with the Colt and the devil falls down, everything freezes for an instant and you can just see Dean thinking "Holy #@&^!, it worked, now what?" And then of course, Luci got up.
Yeah, I didn't mention that part because it was just so crushing to me...I guess I should have said so. To me, that's the worst part of the episode - because you can see for some fleeting instant that they actually start to believe that it worked. That they've won...and then...yeah, crushing.
I think in Swan Song, part of Dean probably wanted Lucifer to beat him to death...Sam had already failed once to get control...so what were Dean's options? Either Sam gained control and died, or he didn't gain control and 2014 would happen...either way, I doubt Dean wanted to live to see it.
Personally, one of the things I loved the most about this episode is Crowley. Kripke obviously loves referencing Gaiman characters (eg Death as a warm-hearted young woman (Tessa), Baldur being one of the gods in 5x19, heck, even the fact that the main characters are on a seemingly endless roadtrip). His choice of picking Crowley out of several demons in Good Omens literally made me squee in real life. Casting Mark Sheppard for the role is just icing on the cake :D
That said, this is also the episode that made me cry like there's no tomorrow. Ellen and Jo were woefully underutilized characters, and their death had me depressed for a while.
Confession time: I've never read Gaiman (except for maybe once?) To me, Baldur was just Baldur. That being said, I know that Alistair and Crowley were both named after one dude in the books, or something. (I have not read the American classics...)
I think I would have cried, if I still had a soul. :P
Actually, I couldn't decide on the rewatch if it was more or less crushing to watch the second time. Hence, why I was putting off watching just a little. :P
"Is it just me, or is Crowley kind of ...really good looking. I think I might have a small crush on Mark Sheppard, people."
Funny, I had that reaction when I saw Mark as Sterling in Leverage. It went something like ... "Hey! It's that guy! ... he's kinda cute ..." And I've been lost in Mark-Land ever since.
Yeah, that really makes that scene just crushing. A forehead kiss is farewell and benediction. We watch Lord of the Rings here a lot and they seem to use the forehead kiss when the characters will likely never see each other again but also as a blessing.
Although Jo and Dean were never romantically involved, she's still one of the few women in Dean's life who actually know about and can accept hunting as a way of life. As a possible partner, she was one of the few people who could have accepted Dean as he is.
Awww...forehead kisses! Is there any way they can't melt my heart?
And yes, I completely agree about Jo. She's one of the few people in the world that Dean could have possibly had a healthy relationship with...well, as long as they never got married and had kids anyway...but at least she knew everything about him, and would have loved him anyway.
There are 5 things in all creation that the Colt can't kill - I've tried to figure out how Lucifer meant this. i've tried too. i would have liked to know what those 5 things are.
1)It's a symbolic Hunter's Funeral for Ellen and Jo, so awww... yes yes yes!
I admit, I didn't get it right away, and I believe in my quick reaction post for that episode, I'm all outraged. But yeah, you have to honour the dead somehow!
Yeah, I think I remember not getting it until someone else pointed it out...either you or SuperWiki or someone else entirely. I am not always swift on the uptake!
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I agree that the teasing about Sam trusting a demon was a sign that the boys were past that. I remember being really struck by those lines on the initial watching, that they were significant.
One other bit you didn't mention--when Dean does shoot Lucifer with the Colt and the devil falls down, everything freezes for an instant and you can just see Dean thinking "Holy #@&^!, it worked, now what?"
And then of course, Luci got up.
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I think in Swan Song, part of Dean probably wanted Lucifer to beat him to death...Sam had already failed once to get control...so what were Dean's options? Either Sam gained control and died, or he didn't gain control and 2014 would happen...either way, I doubt Dean wanted to live to see it.
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That said, this is also the episode that made me cry like there's no tomorrow. Ellen and Jo were woefully underutilized characters, and their death had me depressed for a while.
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I think I would have cried, if I still had a soul. :P
Actually, I couldn't decide on the rewatch if it was more or less crushing to watch the second time. Hence, why I was putting off watching just a little. :P
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Funny, I had that reaction when I saw Mark as Sterling in Leverage. It went something like ... "Hey! It's that guy! ... he's kinda cute ..." And I've been lost in Mark-Land ever since.
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Yeah, that really makes that scene just crushing. A forehead kiss is farewell and benediction. We watch Lord of the Rings here a lot and they seem to use the forehead kiss when the characters will likely never see each other again but also as a blessing.
Although Jo and Dean were never romantically involved, she's still one of the few women in Dean's life who actually know about and can accept hunting as a way of life. As a possible partner, she was one of the few people who could have accepted Dean as he is.
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And yes, I completely agree about Jo. She's one of the few people in the world that Dean could have possibly had a healthy relationship with...well, as long as they never got married and had kids anyway...but at least she knew everything about him, and would have loved him anyway.
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i've tried too. i would have liked to know what those 5 things are.
1)It's a symbolic Hunter's Funeral for Ellen and Jo, so awww...
yes yes yes!
*hugs you*
(and Jo and Ellen too.)
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I admit, I didn't get it right away, and I believe in my quick reaction post for that episode, I'm all outraged. But yeah, you have to honour the dead somehow!
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found it! http://trystan830.livejournal.com/1231103.html - it was a follow-up post about 6 days after it aired.
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