Beyond Mitt's Underwear: Part 3: The Preexistence, Creation, and Plan for Salvation
Father in Heaven (Elohiem) and His wives live near the star called Kolob on a pair of magic stones. They were once mortal humans just like we are and have retained their physical bodies of flesh and bone, but instead of blood they have “spirit matter, a substance which is more refined and pure and glorious than blood”. At the time of creation
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Let's clarify - if you took the fastest starship, perhaps one that could fold space and teleport from one place to another, you could not find Kolob anywhere in our universe. It cannot be reached physically. I couldn't tell you anything beyond that, since we're not entirely sure what was meant by all of that.
Brigham Young once taught that Adam was the son of Elohiem, father of Jesus, and God of our world, a teaching which was incorporated into the “lecture at the veil” portion of the Temple Endowment ceremony, but this was removed in 1877 when Brigham Young died and the modern church no longer teaches it.
Son of Elohiem = true, just like we all are
Father of Jesus = true in the sense that if Adam was the first man, he is physical father to us all
God of our world = true in the sense that he helped create it, and since he is the father of us all, he is invested in the lives and salvation of all of us. Like Revelations says, Michael ( ... )
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I think it's your turn to provide a citation. Who says that?
This is a silly misinterpretation.
Nice to know we've finally gotten to the silly part. I was having trouble figuring out which part was the silly part.
Don't shoot the messenger. Take up this "misinterpretation" with the Quorum of the Twelve, Priesthood Correlation Program, or whoever's telling the LDS.org webmasters to write that stuff down as if it's officially accepted doctrine.
Weren't you the one saying that it's not up to us to question the wisdom of the Prophets, since they speak to God and we have to take their word for it? This is what God told your Prophets, the Church accepts it and teaches it. Deal with it.
every Mormon I've ever talked to agreed with me that Mother Theresa will get to heaven faster than the rest of us.That's wrong on multiple counts ( ... )
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Lots of people I have talked to over the years within the church. Maybe Hugh Nibley? This is organically received info, so I have no citation. Anyone reading this can believe whatever they like - you or someone who has lived it for almost 40 years. :)
Nice to know we've finally gotten to the silly part. I was having trouble figuring out which part was the silly part.
Heh. Yeah, I know. Any religion seems silly to non-religious people, so I accept your comment as a good faith one.
Don't shoot the messenger. Take up this "misinterpretation" with the Quorum of the Twelve, Priesthood Correlation Program, or whoever's telling the LDS.org webmasters to write that stuff down as if it's officially accepted doctrine.Fair enough. I didn't make myself clear in my own comment, so you are totally fine to call me on it. Let me try again ( ... )
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It's a fair question. Baptisms for the dead are not done to force someone into membership of our church after they have passed. While baptism in this life is how you enter the church as a full member, for those that have passed on, the focus is on the spiritual aspect of baptism - accepting Christ and His church. Christ said that unless we are baptized of water and of the Spirit, we cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven and we take that very literally. Since baptism is a physical ordinance, it must be done, and done here. A spirit cannot be baptized, and so someone with a physical body must do it for them.
However, it's like a free ticket for them. They don't have to take it - they are free to accept or reject on their own. But since it's been done, they have that option.
Does that clarify?
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Also not strictly true. Just because someone left the Church does not mean they are as bad as Cain and Satan. It takes serious light and knowledge to rebel to the degree that they qualify for that level of condemnation. Baptism into the church alone is not sufficient. "Denying the Holy Ghost" requires an unshakable witness and a willingness to crucify the Savior again, meaning that if you lived at the time of Jesus, you would know He was the Son of God, and would help nail Him on the cross anyhow because you hate Him so much.
Joseph Smith taught that men live on the moon, are six feet tall, and dress like Quakers, and that the sun was also inhabited by extraterrestrials, but the modern Church does not emphasize this teaching.*snerk ( ... )
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OR he was speaking tongue-in-cheek. They had not invented emoticons back then, so when it got written down, perhaps they forget to mention the grin.
*SNERK*. Maybe the whole Book of Mormon was tongue-in-cheek.
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Of course, he can't explain why SOME of it is "tongue in cheek" and other parts are "divine truth", because he has no tool to evaluate truth of falsity beyond special pleading: He thinks some things are true because he wants them to be, and other things are not true because he doesn't want them to be, and there is absolutely no difference between these things except his personal opinion of them.
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STFU, then. You wouldn't tolerate me simply making up bullcrap or repeating rumors because I thought it sounded good. I won't tolerate that from you.
My first comment on my first post said " Lots of mormons don't know lots of things about their church history, and I'm expecting certain parts of my overview to be as surprising to you as it is to non-mormons." I suspected that some of the surprises found in your official church doctrine might bother you as much as they bother me. Tough titties.
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Except he's not talking about rumours. He's quoting your own scriptures from your own scriptural authority, and what you've done in response is say "Well nobody actually BELIEVES any of that!"
Which is, uh, kind of missing the point. Yes, 98% of Catholics use birth control despite it being absolutely banned in all cases, but pointing out that no Catholics follow the rule doesn't change what the rule *is*.
What didn't change was the commandment to love thy neighbor, (still) the most important commandment in the law.Your inclusion of "(still)" implies that, like all other teachings, it's subject to revision via the ongoing revelation. I have to ask, what if it *did* change? What would you do then ( ... )
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