Can I get an Amen!!! I agree with everything you're saying about Martha. I wanted to add that I think it says something about culture as well. The Doctor, who at least believes himself to be brilliant (I'd say the jury is out), is only truly happy in modern Who with companions who are - shop girls, temp secretaries, and waitresses. Really? Poor shopgirls with a heart of gold? What is this a George Bernard Shaw play? Meanwhile an educated woman is treated like dirt, quite literally made a servant at times, and treated like an imbecile frequently. Funny a brilliant man/Time Lord who has problems with a smart, accomplished woman. Do I detect some bias here
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Lol he does have quite the ego, doesn't he :-). All of the NuWho companions (save Martha) have been people who were unsatisfied with their lives - Martha was the only one who was simply intrigued by the Doctor and the adventure. That doesn't seem to send the best message, I agree. Escapism is not a healthy way of life. And you're right, in addition to getting the emotional short end of the stick, Martha did seem to get some of the worst adventures as well. I don't see why that was necessary, unless they didn't want to distract us from the emotional arc with too much exciting action. Perhaps they made Martha so awesome to compensate for shortchanging her everywhere else - or, perhaps to make sure that she was well received as a character despite all the baggage they packed into her series? That could account for why she was so impeccably educated, accomplished, and competent. I agree, however, that the trend towards companions whose lives are "dead-ends" is disturbing. Not sure why RTD has been going that route, except perhaps
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I work with mathematicians - they tend to get defensive around girls who aren't as smart as they are. Like I said before they're the best guys to work with they joke they are the zombies of the dating pool - they really have a thing for brains. His office mate had an even better comment that I forgot about until later - "Martha's hot, smart, and you'd be proud to let her meet the Dean of the University with you and then have dinner together at your mother's. That's the litmus test of any woman." Have I mentioned I love the men I work with?
you might have done...but smart/geeky men are *sexxyy* (hence the reference to engineers, lol), so feel free to mention them as much as you like! :-D lol... *I* am beginning to love the men you work with! ;-)
I agree! I agree! totally timing! lol but that's my fangirl speaking :-D I would have loved it if he had been able to treat her well, also, but what disturbs me most about their arc is what you said in your second to last paragraph - that now that he's *acknowledged* his wrongdoing, and has the chance to make things right, he's still doing the *same old thing* - acting like an arse, lol. And I think you said it perfectly - for some odd reason, Martha still has to prove she's worthy of his respect - even Ross (who did carry a gun, btw) got more respect than Martha. Erm, what? It is looking more and more likely that Martha will never be respected properly by the Doctor or the writing team/RTD. They're lucky Freema is so fantastic - I believe that is a huge part of a) Martha's success with the fans and b) the reason why Martha fans have kept hope alive this long, that things will be "fixed" in the end. Goodness knows, I'll always watch Freema! :-D (Except, maybe in the s4 finale - unless things improve between her and the Doc in
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Oh I agree too, about the timing. In Smith and Jones it's obvious he's flirting and you just don't flirt like that if you're not attracted to someone. The wink, the look as she leaves the ward, and that whole scene outside the pub at the end. Which only serves to make the way he then behaves more annoying.
I'd forgotten about the 'fancying someone who doesn't even know you exist' line, and yes, I thought at the time that it just made the Doctor into the cruelest person going. All of which makes me admire Martha more, because it makes the year that never was even more self-sacrificing and heroic on her part.
Here's another thing that ticks me off and makes me blame the writers (AKA RTD). I understand that it might have been difficult to write or re-write a series after Billie Piper up and left on them, if that's how it happened. Suddenly they're thrust into a situation in which they have to introduce a new companion and make her likable, flesh her out, give her a relationship with the Doctor. They are the ones who opted to make it 'difficult' with unrequited love. If they had never made Rose into the True Love Companion, they would not have had such a huge problem trying to replace her.
What we end up with is an entire season of Martha proving herself over and over and over again to the Doctor, and him never fully admitting to giving a shit, which is a disappointment in a lot of ways. Worse than that, it's shoddy writing because Martha and the Doctor are both so well written in their respective roles that I, as a viewer, can't quite figure out why Rose is overshadowing everything. It is a matter of timing, not lack of
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In Doomsday, on the beach, when Rose cries, "I love you", the Doctor says, "Quite right too. ...And I suppose... if it's my last chance to say it...Rose Tyler [I love you <- we'll just assume he was going to finish with that
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wow, um XD that was a lot to read. But that's alright, I love reading this kind of stuff, it's just that it's four in the morning, so bear with me.
Even if it's all true and this is all some elaborate three-season arc to finish out the Rose story, it is a horrible thing to have done to Martha.
My thoughts are bound to be a little fragmented here, apologies.
Here's the thing. At least if the Doctor was that much in love with Rose, it can justify (partially) his treatment of Martha. We'll give him the benefit of the doubt for having just lost the woman he loves. But if it turns out that it wasn't True Love, doesn't that just lower Martha even more? If it wasn't True Love with Rose, then there's no good reason for him to deny Martha, unless he really is a cold and clueless idiot.
You’ve raised so many good points in your post, and I agree with all of them so much. Anyway, word on all the previous comments above, I don’t have much else to add, except for one thing that you pointed out in your post. I didn’t even consider the length of time the Doctor and Martha have known each other, and now that I’ve had time to mull it over the whole (non-shippy) Ten/Martha relationship looks even more screwed up from where I’m standing.
Aside from Jack whom the Doctor (not necessarily Ten, since I don’t recall them ever having met before Utopia) has known for say, about 5-6 years, Martha’s the second person that he’s known longest after the Time War, and the Doctor gives Jack more consideration (let’s ignore the whole “you’re wrong” comment in Utopia for a moment here) and respect than he has done for Martha. The time they’ve known each other is irrelevant, even, since Jack didn’t have to walk the Earth for a year, or work as a servant in 1913 for three months, or as a shop girl for however many weeks in 1969, all to
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the Doctor gives Jack more considerationand respect than he has done for Martha...since Jack didn’t have to walk the Earth for a year, or work as a servant in 1913 for three months, or as a shop girl for however many weeks in 1969, all to support/take care of/save the Doctor each time.(emphasis mine
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I admit, my response may have (actually, it has) ignored/neglected Jack's relationship with the Doctor, and I have almost no recollection of S2 since I've only seen it once, so I apologize if my comment seemed to you like I was belittling Jack in any way, which I would never do, I love him to bits. I was merely commenting on my perception of how Martha's situation in S3 played out, it seemed to me that at a certain point in time during the 3-parter finale, the Doctor considered Jack more as his "equal" whereas Martha's pushed to the sidelines again, only to step up to the plate when the Doctor's backed up to the wall, when she has proven time and again that she is more than able to play with the big boys.
The same maltreatment did happen to Jack(as you have pointed out in your 2nd paragraph), but I was focusing more on Martha since she was, in S3, the Doctor's main Companion. I hope that clarifies some stuff, I tend to use my tunnel vision when I'm talking about Martha, is all :\
That looks to me like Martha and Jack spend
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the Doctor considered Jack more as his "equal" whereas Martha's pushed to the sidelines again, only to step up to the plate when the Doctor's backed up to the wall, when she has proven time and again that she is more than able to play with the big boys. I think the Doctor acts appallingly badly to both of them all the way through. The bit about disabling Jack's vortex manipulator after it saved their lives *so many times* struck me as offensive and patronizing in the extreme. Same thing with Martha, when she walked in to say goodbye and he started off on the "right, let's get going" spiel. That's why the line about loving somebody who doesn't know you exist, and Jack's "You too, huh?" hits us so hard...it's when Martha realizes she isn't the only one who is being poorly treated, and I think that's when she is able to start (just a glimmer, but it's a start) moving on. Same for Jack, in a way
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I would have loved it if he had been able to treat her well, also, but what disturbs me most about their arc is what you said in your second to last paragraph - that now that he's *acknowledged* his wrongdoing, and has the chance to make things right, he's still doing the *same old thing* - acting like an arse, lol. And I think you said it perfectly - for some odd reason, Martha still has to prove she's worthy of his respect - even Ross (who did carry a gun, btw) got more respect than Martha. Erm, what? It is looking more and more likely that Martha will never be respected properly by the Doctor or the writing team/RTD. They're lucky Freema is so fantastic - I believe that is a huge part of a) Martha's success with the fans and b) the reason why Martha fans have kept hope alive this long, that things will be "fixed" in the end. Goodness knows, I'll always watch Freema! :-D (Except, maybe in the s4 finale - unless things improve between her and the Doc in ( ... )
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I'd forgotten about the 'fancying someone who doesn't even know you exist' line, and yes, I thought at the time that it just made the Doctor into the cruelest person going. All of which makes me admire Martha more, because it makes the year that never was even more self-sacrificing and heroic on her part.
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Here's another thing that ticks me off and makes me blame the writers (AKA RTD). I understand that it might have been difficult to write or re-write a series after Billie Piper up and left on them, if that's how it happened. Suddenly they're thrust into a situation in which they have to introduce a new companion and make her likable, flesh her out, give her a relationship with the Doctor. They are the ones who opted to make it 'difficult' with unrequited love. If they had never made Rose into the True Love Companion, they would not have had such a huge problem trying to replace her.
What we end up with is an entire season of Martha proving herself over and over and over again to the Doctor, and him never fully admitting to giving a shit, which is a disappointment in a lot of ways. Worse than that, it's shoddy writing because Martha and the Doctor are both so well written in their respective roles that I, as a viewer, can't quite figure out why Rose is overshadowing everything. It is a matter of timing, not lack of ( ... )
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Ok. This last reason may just be me. But:
In Doomsday, on the beach, when Rose cries, "I love you", the Doctor says, "Quite right too. ...And I suppose... if it's my last chance to say it...Rose Tyler [I love you <- we'll just assume he was going to finish with that ( ... )
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Even if it's all true and this is all some elaborate three-season arc to finish out the Rose story, it is a horrible thing to have done to Martha.
My thoughts are bound to be a little fragmented here, apologies.
Here's the thing. At least if the Doctor was that much in love with Rose, it can justify (partially) his treatment of Martha. We'll give him the benefit of the doubt for having just lost the woman he loves. But if it turns out that it wasn't True Love, doesn't that just lower Martha even more? If it wasn't True Love with Rose, then there's no good reason for him to deny Martha, unless he really is a cold and clueless idiot.
I'm really not making sense, am I? Blargh.
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Aside from Jack whom the Doctor (not necessarily Ten, since I don’t recall them ever having met before Utopia) has known for say, about 5-6 years, Martha’s the second person that he’s known longest after the Time War, and the Doctor gives Jack more consideration (let’s ignore the whole “you’re wrong” comment in Utopia for a moment here) and respect than he has done for Martha. The time they’ve known each other is irrelevant, even, since Jack didn’t have to walk the Earth for a year, or work as a servant in 1913 for three months, or as a shop girl for however many weeks in 1969, all to ( ... )
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The same maltreatment did happen to Jack(as you have pointed out in your 2nd paragraph), but I was focusing more on Martha since she was, in S3, the Doctor's main Companion. I hope that clarifies some stuff, I tend to use my tunnel vision when I'm talking about Martha, is all :\
That looks to me like Martha and Jack spend ( ... )
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