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[conundrum1]

What is your opinion of doing chemistry or any science 'lishma'?

lishma: for its own sake, for the knowledge (really to bring you closer to G-d)...

Do you believe science brings you closer to G-d (regardless of what G-d you worship)?

Comments

[mick_hale]

Wait, there's another reason to study science?

Dude, I consider myself a massive science geek. Every little bit of information I learn brings me even more emunah in God.

How else do you explain the evolution of subatomic particles to atoms to molecules to entire planets and solar systems and single-celled organisms to multi-cellular organism to organ-based organisms that can build an entire world that we live in, for as screwed up as it is, and all of this in a span of 15 billion years? Science has yet to explain it. It's mathematically mind-boggling.

Every day, we take advantage of these miracles.

[conundrum1]

Some people think that science is separate from Torah. Sort of like the separation between church and state.

Torah is a WAY of life, therefore it cannot be removed from any aspect of it - especially not science.

If science is your way of connecting to G-d, that's really great. Personally, I cannot feel my emunah being strenghtened by concepts that are beyond me, but on a simple level I can appreciate how scientific discoveries have led to greater understandings of the complexity of this world that we live in, and the even greater puzzle of the human body and mind. Hashem allows us to "discover" certain things by unlocking one miraculously event at a time, making us think that it's science. Nono, it's NOT science, I mean, it can be explained by it, but really it's a miracle. Simply a miracle. We breath in oxygen, let out carbon...blah blah...they can artificially simulate breathing, and the beat of a heart, but they cannot create a heart from scratch. Only Hashem can make something out of nothing.

Hidden miracles. All from

[mick_hale]

*shrug* Science is the language in which we understand God, second only to Scriptures. I stand by that.

[liosho]

Absolutely.

[conundrum1]

Would you take a science course for the sake of taking the course, even if you didn't require it for your degree / grad school?

[liosho]

Yep. If I came across anything that would seem contradictory to Jewish beliefs (which I haven't encountered too many times when studying the sciences), I'd just read other material, that could explain how it does or doesn't fit to what the Torah says.

[debsters1101]

i dunno, for me, learning science is like, proof of GD. its the coolest thing how the body works, i never cease to be amazed. i got to dissect a sheep brain today, it was the coolest thing ever. whoever says sthe human body just kind of evolved, and "happened" is ridiculous.
anyway, thats my opinion. carry on...
by the way i think that a true torah jew can take any subject and infuse kedushak into it... psych math sociology science ok maybe not english... thats just to boring and tameh....

[conundrum1]

You disected a sheep brain? ewwwww :D Why???? lol.

I agree that science is in itself a clever proof of Hashem's existance. It can be seen as either a totally secular field where there is no room for religion or a complement to religious teachings, specifically the Torah. It's free will + yetzer hara that makes people see a separation between science and G-d, or mistakenly believe that G-d does not exist at all.

The context of this post was that a friend dropped out of a science course after having completed everything but the final exam. I assumed that most people take sciences only because they require those type of courses for med school or for any science related career, rather than just out of plain interest. Maybe I was wrong :D

[liosho]

I did sheep brain dissections. Once I got past the formaldehyde smell, it wasn't so bad. Our cutting tools were really blunt, though, so we could never make perfectly clean cuts.

[conundrum1]

again...why did you dissect a sheep???? Poor lil' sheep...hopefully someone ate the rest of it :P

[tdc311]

Personally I wouldn't take a science class just lishma, because it would be far to hard to be worthwhile if I didn't need it for my degree, but I do also think that science definitely can bring you closer to G-d, just understanding the amazing ways the world works brings you a tremendous appreciation of His power.

[conundrum1]

I agree.

Torah lishma, on the other hand, is AMAZING :D (*thinking about sem...*)

[trempnvt]

(Dittoing liosho:) Absolutely.

If God created the universe, then He created physics (and chemistry and biology and all that, but I prefer physics [obviously]). And if He commanded us to מלאו את הארץ וכבשה, and that's generally interpreted as a support for scientific exploration, then taking a science class lishma is a pretty good idea!

Anyway, isn't everything supposed to be lishma?